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Thread: Snakes

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    546

    Default Re: Snakes Question for DrDan

    DrDan
    Is there any value to packing the extremity in Ice? I've heard this slows the venom flow.
    Randy Sale

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: Snakes Question for DrDan

    DrDan
    Is there any value to packing the extremity in Ice? I've heard this slows the venom flow.
    Randy Sale

    it is not recommended. most authorities feel it can drive some venom components deeper into tissue and can cause more ischemia

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Snakes

    Dr. Dan,

    I do some backpacking and at times may be 10 to 15 miles from a trail head, what is the best thing to do, except only backpack in the winter, to prepare for a potential rattlesnake bite??

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    irvine ky
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: Snakes

    I think Dr Dan is right.I was repeating what Rattlin Bill told me.I wish someone would tell me what to do if bitten by a poisonous snake.The Vanderbilt Dr's ,the toxocologists,the er's,will tell you what not to do,and will probably want you to go in for some tests,bitten or not.My question is-----If a snake bites you---what do you do?like i said--i think dr dan is right,but i think dr dan answers no questions--his comments are negative,vague and about as instructional as kissing your sister.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kingston, TN
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: Snakes

    .My question is-----If a snake bites you---what do you do?like i said--i think dr dan is right,but i think dr dan answers no questions--his comments are negative,vague and about as instructional as kissing your sister.
    I think that is a little unfair. * His advice is to get to the ER ASAP and don't do anything to make it worse.

    Things that make it worse include tournequets, incisions, creek water, chemicals, and ice.

    At a point, you pass "first aid" and go to medical self treatment. *If there is no hope of professional medical treatment for, say, 12 hours, I wonder if incisions and tournequets would be of any benefit anyway. *Left to my own devices, I'd have to hope I got a dry bite (20% are) or a very small dose rather than risking opening an artery or causing gangrene. *

    Doing some google work, you see that 8000 snake bites are recorded annually in the US resulting in fewer than 12 fatalities per year. *I think the moral is, don't panic.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: Snakes

    lauxier..im sorry you found my post negative and vague.

    what you posted is quite frankly dangerous advice. i'm not sure how much more specific i could be.

    the best way to not get bit is to avoid harrassing snakes. timber rattlers are actually quite reclusive and shy animals and it is rare for them to act agressively. their numbers are in significant decline due to loss of habitat.

    there is only one other rattler in tn...the pygmy...but it is only found in the western part of the state and they are even more reclusive. the only other venomous pit viper in east tn is the copperhead. its venom is less harmful but still requires antivenom sometimes.

    i would not alter my hiking plans due to fear of rattlers. the chance of getting bitten is incredibly remote if you act responsibly.

    if a bite occurs

    keep calm
    get to a hospital as quick as possible
    if you are by yourself, get out as best you can. communication is very difficult in the back country. i would not sit and wait to be extricated. while it is ideal to immobilize the limb that might not be possible if you are by yourself. basic first aid is about all you can do until you reach civilization.
    incisions are of no benefit and actually cause harm
    dont use a tourniquet

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Snakes

    My boys and I fished Tremont Thursday and came across a rattlesnake in the road. Sure does make you want to stay in the water and not out on the bank.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    irvine ky
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: Snakes

    dr dan--sorry about my abrasive way--there is a product called a Sawyer Pump .I get faxes at my pharmacy on this thing about every day--it is part of this company's snake bite kit.To use the pump you must first lance.Have you ever heard of such a gizmo.
    Lets say you have just been bitten by a snake.You are by yourself.It is August and very hot.You are 300 yrds from a road that leads to your vehicle.From the road you are still 300 yrds from your truck.Do you walk out slowly or fastOnce you get to the road,should you stop and wait for help?.It is hot,you are very upset,your heart is beating a mile a minute,the swelling is starting,What now?
    I have fished the Smokies for over 30 years.I have not had a close call with a snake.I have seen several copperheads and 1 rattlesnake.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: Snakes

    i have seen the sawyer pump/extractor. it is sold with the premise it can remove the venom through the original wound. it is actually a neat looking little kit but the problem is that venom can be injected so deep and dispersed through different tissue planes that venom return is low. if the venom gets into a vascular structure it is long gone before you can apply the gizmo

    it is not "harmful" in and of itself... as long as you dont make incisions which can cause significant bleeding (pit viper venom has anticoagulants in it) as well as the risk of damage to important structures like arteries and tendons etc. i have seen some wounds made by people in the field (and in hospitals) and they can be worse than the bite itself !!!!!!


    as far as what to do 300yds off the road with a bite...get out as fast as you can. it is ok to gather yourself but with a serious bite you want to get out as quickly as is feasible. trying to call for help is worthless unless you have a sat phone or a field radio (neither of which i own). some of the streams are so isolated i dont see anyone all day and waiting for rescue could be futile.

    if i had a serious bite and couldnt get out i would hope i was on a river by a major trail and hope someone came along.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Snakes

    Not to pick on anyone here, as my experience shows that most of the people who post are informed sportsmen and are familiar with the outdoors. However, I believe most of the "sightings" of posionous snakes are actually harmless common non-venom snakes. I have friends that I fish the park with and they are always telling me about the copperhead or rattlesnake they saw, and if I go to the area and actually find it, the snake is never what they think it is.

    In my experience the parks venomous snakes are not usually found along the streams where most of us spend our time. (There are exceptions, of course).

    The northern water snake seems to get the most credit for being a posionous snake, and they are prob the most plentiful large snake that most anglers run into.

    I would like to see what the rest of you think.

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