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Old 01-22-2007, 11:12 PM
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DryFly1 DryFly1 is offline
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Default Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Interesting read for those who have not seen it. If the link does not work go to TWRA and Trout Mgmt Plan.


http://www.state.tn.us/twra/fish/Str...ut_Plan_06.pdf
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Old 01-23-2007, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Three glaring things I noticed. *

1. *Slot limits are being imposed on several streams except for the tailwater with the most pressure, the Clinch. *

2. *"Review trout management stategies at least every 10 years for effectiveness". * Ten years? *Which one of us gets to check every 10 years to see if we are doing our job to the satisfaction of those that employ us, which in TWRA's situation, is the anglers who pay their salaries.

3. *I was AMAZED at the number of trout that are paid for from our licences that are sacrificed at city ponds and special events to "increase the awareness of trout fishing". *I thougth that is what food stamps and TNCare were for! *How many of those folks actually go and buy a licence, do stream improvement, or for that matter RELEASE JUST ONE FISH?

How do we get these good old boys out of TWRA and get some fresh thinkers? *Can we not hire a trout fisheries biologist with ties to the West, or for that matter Arkansas, were trout management is more than scheduling the trout truck deliveries? *

Flat Fly'n






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Old 01-23-2007, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Flat Fly n,

Great points. This is why I posted it and dubbed it "Interesting Read"!

These are some of the exact points that I find troubling. We have a alot of work to do! Maybe I should get "half price" on my fishing license for catch-and-release.

DryFly1
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Old 01-23-2007, 07:44 PM
RFowler RFowler is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Flat Fly n,

I agree with your ideology but I have to think that TWRA is thinking and acting in the best interests for all user groups. I especially agree with #1 and #2. Any tailwater, or stream for that matter, that has the potential to be trophy water, needs to be managed that way. I've seen fish after fish 16-20" leave that river on a stringer, many times. I think the current poor fishing on the Clinch is a result of many different factors but I believe overharvesting is one of them.

About #2, I'd like to see them do it every 3 years. Tennessee has some rich waters so playing around with different regulations makes sense to me. I would like to see more public parks along the tailwaters for access so implementing different regulations could/would be better received. In other words, harvesting would be allowed in these public areas and special regs could be used more on other parts of the rivers. But I've heard that can be a problem with land owners. I have a problem with any land owner having precedence over anglers as a whole. Actually, the prospect is quite ridiculous. After all, do the math and see where most of the money is coming from. It's not the land owners. They don't own the resource so I don't see the issue.

From my own personal experience, Tennessee, even currently, has fantastic fishing. But I agree that could be even better, without it costing much, or any, more. With the exception of public parks, that is.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

RFowler.
The land from the weir dam to Norris dam is owned by TVA and NOT held privately. *Why not make that C&R only, artificial only, and have that area to grow big fish? *Some would stay in the area, some would go downstream to be kept by those that want to keep fish, or for that matter TWRA could shock and remove some of the fish for transplanting to other parts of the river. *Wait, that would take a thought process or someone in TWRA to come up with an original idea that might be "outside the norm., or not popular" to a certain subset of fishermen. *

Imagine if you had an area that was probably over a mile long were one could go and possibly catch AND release a 6-8# bow or brown, or for craziness stock brook and cutthroats (as in the N. Fork White River, Ark). *Can you imagine having a fisheries similiar to the San Juan in New Mexico? *How much money could residents, hotel owners, fly shops in and around Anderson county could make off a fisheries? *TWRA already scalps out of state folks for a 3 day stamp, why they could charge double for a shot at a trophy fish from the Clinch.

I quess we will have to wait for 2017 to "study the situation again". *Ten more years of surveys paid for by licence holders that only benifit the PhD's and not the fishermen. *(I have vast experiences with grants and funding for projects).

My point is that once the Clinch produced alot of big fish and was a popular place. *Since the new stocking programs and now the plan seems to just flood the river with 3" fish, the numbers of big fish has declined, and the number of fishermen has decreased. *So if they are going to continue the present stocking program, at least give us some regulations that will aid both fishermen and fish.

Flat Fly'n
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:11 AM
RFowler RFowler is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Quote:
RFowler.
The land from the weir dam to Norris dam is owned by TVA and NOT held privately.

Flat Fly'n

I don't remember making any statements to the contrary, Flat. Remember, I agree with you. Please read above. I would love to see progressive regs on our productive waters in Tennessee.

I first noticed a change on the Clinch in the spring of '04. That's about the same time didymo showed up on the South Holston tailwater, and, if you can believe it, some rivers in New Zealand. Coincidence or part of something much deeper? I'm puzzled by this stuff. Could be that it was on the Clinch at that time as well. Following poor to good fishing on the Clinch that summer, the Tennessee Valley, among other places, got hit by the remnants of 4 hurricanes. TVA ran water for 6-7 straight months, after that. I did several floats in the spring of '05 and the fish seemed to be concentrated to certain areas. It was only in the early summer that I noticed that the fish had become more spread out. My theory is the fish moved to areas where they could feed more lazily, without fighting constant 4500-9000cfs during that Fall and Winter. Plus, from what I've read in reports, TWRA was conducting a capacity study on the river. Combine pressure, didymo, heavy releases, lots of little fingerlings, and you'll get poor fishing as a result. Unfortunately, I have not been able to spend much time on the Clinch since July of '05. But from what friends are telling me and from the few times I've fished it, it's still not fishing good. Especially on the upper river. Now I do feel that TWRA could better inform us that care on things concerning the Clinch. But to put all the blame on them because of the poor fishing is a little unfair.

I had to come back to Georgia in the summer of '05 to help my family. I long to be back up in Tennessee, I truly believe its the best fishing state that lies east of the mississippi. Add it's proximity to saltwater and it may just be the best there is. I don't think some of you realize just how good you have it up there. I'm curious if there is any way that we anglers can better help the hard working people at TWRA. Maybe they would/could benefit from solid feedback instead of biased misunderstandings. Although, I don't recall seeing any rangers doing angler interviews on the Clinch, or anywhere else, for that matter. Maybe the distant relationship between anglers and the TWRA can be be a thing of the past with some favorable introductions from the groups that care the most. I would hope that would be people like us. I know I personally find it harder to let people down if they favor me.
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

RF,
You keep stranger hours than I do. *Posted at 1AM? *

You didn't make a "statement to the contrary". *I threw that out for a general statement to those that assume that all the land around the Clinch is privately held. *About the hurricanes and big CFS, I am no engineer, but I always heard that water flow was laminar, therefore, the bottom should have been protected.

Now that masses of munucia(sp) has been thrown out we continue to agree that East Tenn. has some incredible trout fishing. *Is it because it is managed well, or because we have an abundance of protected streams from GSMNP and surrounding Cherokee NP, as well as the luck and luxury of cold aerated water discharged below dams built by TVA since the 1930's? *The trout fishing is one reason I have stayed in this area since moving here in 1986, but that does not mean I am willing to sit ideally by and watch our fisheries get passed by other states regarding progressive measures such as C&R, slot limits, and god forbid creel limits. *

Flat Fly'n
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Old 01-24-2007, 04:22 PM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Flat Flyn,

I was involved somewhat in the controversial catch and release move made by TU in the early 90's on the Clinch. I went to some of the Tennessee Commission Meetings mainly to give David Buxbaum and the Great Smoky Mountains Chapter my support. I can't remember if you were in on that too. If the land above the weir is owned by TVA, then why didn't TWRA or TU think of that at the time. Seems to me that could have been a compromise that the landowners, sportfishermen and baitfishermen could have all lived with. I think there is a TU, TVA, TWRA meeting next weekend. It's usually held at TVA headquarters downtown. The TWRA biologists in this part of the state are all friends of mine. I've done a lot of volunteer work with them. Great bunch of guys. I talked to Jim Hebera just a few weeks ago. I think they may present a new management plan for the Clinch soon. Also, the TWRA Commission meeting was held in Knoxville maybe a couple of months ago. I was urged to go but couldn't get away. Commission meetings would be a good way to make these points known. Also, we have a new Wildlife Commissioner in our region. It's their job to listen to suggestions such as this and support their constituants, people like us. This is a great thread. Keep it up.

Byron
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Old 01-24-2007, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Byron,
I was at the TU meeting at the old country club that was beside west town mall before it all got developed. *At that meeting the two fellows trying to push through the "trophy section" did NOT want the above the weir area secondary to very poor dry fly fishing. *It was not Dave B. by the way. *They tried, pushed through the Peach Orchard to Lluelyn Island (sp) trophy section, that eventually got removed by LUCRO a few years later. *

I can't say as I blame the guys from LUCRO now that I have grown up a little during that time. *I would not want someone else telling me I could not take my kid fishing on my own property and not have him keep fish if he caught them. *This is not the issue above the weir.

I would like to know if there is anyway some of us could go to these meetings to voice input. *I swear I will not drink caffiene that day, and bite my tongue until it bleeds before I speak!
Flat Fly'n

PS Just how does one insert a picture into a message?

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  #10  
Old 01-24-2007, 08:08 PM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Flat Fly'n,

Please call me tomorrow afternoon and I'll give you a couple of names and phone numbers. If you want to get involved you need to get to know the right people. I had a conversation with a friend last weekend who will be going to the meeting. I've worked with TWRA both in the political area and on the stream. Back in the 80's we tried to get some regs on the Caney Fork. We failed. Nothing works unless the landowners agree. And, TWRA won't get involved unless landowners agree. I don't blame them, they've been burned too many times.

My best friend for 50 years served as a Commissioner in Kentucky for 10 years. He worked to get the regulations that we now have on the Cumberland River there. It happened without complaints or opposition. And now, you see the benefits of that effort.

Byron
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