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  #21  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:06 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is online now
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Originally Posted by MadisonBoats View Post
I can appreciate your clarification and I respect your point.

However, I do disagree about creating an artificial hatch. The logic and correct method allows for this to be possible. ....Not saying you can trick a trout to thinking there is a mayfly hatch in December....but, if you can trick them to taking a dry sulphur-why not trick them in to thinking there is a hatch with repetitive approaches of the same fly...?

I have tons of new video with my new HD Hero. However; my pc is super slow at editing the high-end video. I will try and put together a video illustrating my idea and how I fish it both from the fisherman perspective and the trout perspective underwater.

SM
Anything is possible, and having never tried it, **** it might be the missing link.

Look forward to seeing the new.vids
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2012, 05:51 PM
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I don't subscribe to the creating an artificial hatch either. I agree trout are in tune with their surroundings. I would enjoy seeing a video if one exists.

Heck it could just be THE missing link. hahaaha

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just a difference of opinion I suppose.
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilson10 View Post

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just a difference of opinion I suppose.
Same for me, and I worded my post last night in a manner which I could understand some taking offense to.

It is a worthy thing to try however, the only way to test the theory would be to take a green drake of some other odd ball imitation which generally won't work, and try it to see if it will work.
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  #24  
Old 05-10-2012, 10:07 PM
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I'm going to the Clinch tomorrow and throwing all my crappy flies in the water upstream and then running downstream and wait on the pseudo-hatch to get them going. Recycling with a purpose.....I like it!
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
It is a worthy thing to try however, the only way to test the theory would be to take a green drake of some other odd ball imitation which generally won't work, and try it to see if it will work.
You guys are taking it in a completely different direction and I think are missing the point...

The idea is NOT to go out there and try to fool a trout with a green drake or other 'odd ball imitation' but instead to simulate a hatch that is currently in cycle. Heck, I don't even fish a green drake and yet there are rare hatches of drakes in the mountains. It is just not worth the effort and it is best to concentrate on stronger patterns. For instance, say quill gordons have been hatching recently but don't happen to come out when you are on the water. With the right timing and technique you can get the trout in a run coming up and taking your quill gordon dry consistently if you know what you are doing, even without a 'hatch' going on...

Tight Lines,

Last edited by tnflyfisher; 05-11-2012 at 12:01 PM..
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  #26  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:24 AM
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Artificial chumming...interesting...

I can see WW point...cause if you are already throwing a bug that's in season and the fish are already tuned onto it, are you really forcing an untimely response from the fish to deviate from its normal behavior? If its taking a bunch of cast for the fish to take a fly that is already in season, seems to me it could be more about getting the presentation right.
In the park, I think the fish are a bit more opportunistic and would eat most buggy looking flies if presented right, year around, hatch or not. I don't know if its forcing a hatch for them as much as its - "hey it looks food and acts like food, might be food-get it before its gone" I think that's why general/generic patterns and attractor patterns works so well.

Regardless, to me one of the beautiful facets of fly fishing is the ability to make it your own. And as such - to each his own.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Waterborn View Post
I can see WW point...cause if you are already throwing a bug that's in season and the fish are already tuned onto it, are you really forcing an untimely response from the fish to deviate from its normal behavior? If its taking a bunch of cast for the fish to take a fly that is already in season, seems to me it could be more about getting the presentation right.
In the park, I think the fish are a bit more opportunistic and would eat most buggy looking flies if presented right, year around, hatch or not. I don't know if its forcing a hatch for them as much as its - "hey it looks food and acts like food, might be food-get it before its gone" I think that's why general/generic patterns and attractor patterns works so well.
Exactly, that's part of the whole point and I totally agree with you 100%... Just trying to make it clear that it was never mentioned anywhere that someone can take something completely foreign and try to fool, trick, convince a trout to think that magically there is some hatch going on that is out of the norm... I think words were added along the way and it became something it wasn't. And I know the mountains and the tailwaters are two different environments. All that was ever implied was that even if there are not any hatches coming off, you can still successfully catch trout on dry flies and mimicking a 'hatch' is a good technique to get them fired up and coming to the surface. That was all...

Tight Lines,
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:11 PM
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Can a person go to the Clinch and catch a fish at 8 am on a sulfur dry right now? Absolutely, they are aware the bugs are hatching and are keyed into their presence, so they will take one if presented properly.

However, some of the fish won't until the nymphs become active, and adults begin to show up on the surface.

This goes back to the perpetual view that trout are stupid. In other words, some if not most can't remember what happen 12 hours ago, and it takes a good number of bugs to get them in the groove of eating them every day.

Thank god for the dumb ones with short memories, if not it might be impossible to catch more than 1-2 a trip.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
Can a person go to the Clinch and catch a fish at 8 am on a sulfur dry right now? Absolutely, they are aware the bugs are hatching and are keyed into their presence, so they will take one if presented properly.

However, some of the fish won't until the nymphs become active, and adults begin to show up on the surface.

This goes back to the perpetual view that trout are stupid. In other words, some if not most can't remember what happen 12 hours ago, and it takes a good number of bugs to get them in the groove of eating them every day.

Thank god for the dumb ones with short memories, if not it might be impossible to catch more than 1-2 a trip.
>>>>>>>Yup
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  #30  
Old 05-12-2012, 10:24 AM
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Fellas, I respect all of your opinions and I enjoy learning from them as well.

One thing to think of...Any pattern you throw and catch fish on is mimicking some type of aquatic activity or stimulating a reaction from trout. The patterns that generally work the most are in tune to the recent benthic activity.

That being said; what feeding trait tells the trout when it is time to start taking dry flies(?) In my opinion, it is an increased presence of emergent nymphs and actual adults on the water. There are correlating factors that trout could unknowingly relate as well-such as temperature, sunlight %, pH, oxygen content, etc...However; I think these factors are less influential than the basic desire to feed. As of recent; I have not witnessed any massive hatches. Most are limited and consist of a dry floating by every minute or two...So; it is very easy to repetitively induce a dry fly in to a feeding lie to simulate a hatch.

Fortunately; my personality is inventive and open to learning. I could not imagine fly fishing with 2-3 patterns and find that stimulating. But, that is the beauty of life and in choosing a fishing partner. I generally surround myself with positive and innovative people. Most of all; I shun negativity with a passion as it will eventually poison the soul and all those around it...
I Like this quote and I hope it some may enjoy it as well...
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"We all operate in two contrasting modes, which might be called open and closed. The open mode is more relaxed, more receptive, more exploratory, more democratic, more playful and more humorous. The closed mode is the tighter, more rigid, more hierarchical, more tunnel-visioned. Most people, unfortunately spend most of their time in the closed mode. Not that the closed mode cannot be helpful. If you are leaping a ravine, the moment of takeoff is a bad time for considering alternative strategies. When you charge the enemy machine-gun post, don't waste energy trying to see the funny side of it. Do it in the "closed" mode. But the moment the action is over, try to return to the "open" mode—to open your mind again to all the feedback from our action that enables us to tell whether the action has been successful, or whether further action is need to improve on what we have done. In other words, we must return to the open mode, because in that mode we are the most aware, most receptive, most creative, and therefore at our most intelligent."— John Cleese.
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