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  #11  
Old 04-23-2013, 05:16 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Corbo View Post
Four weeks ago on a cold friday I positively saw BWO's size 16 on the Clinch at Millers Island; not a huge amount and none left the water... I think it was too cold for them to fly off the film.

On Saturday most of the mayflies I saw were indeed Sulphurs but they were "Invaria" which are usually darker than the typical common sulphur and have red eyes and a dun wing most often size 16.

Dorothea Sulpurs are distinctly "sulphur" and distinctly yellow and perhaps a tad of orange usually size 14 in my experience.

I have no doubt that I saw some BWO's on Saturday but not many...

Bugs will find their way to new waters... when parts of the Kennebec benefited from much cleaner water BWO's were the first to appear followed several years later by Dorothea and then invaria and finally Isonychia.

Boy do I wish the Clinch had Iso's!

Now as to Shawn's nymphs.... beats me but I wish I had a fly to match them on saturday! Wish I had not left the CDC olives in the truck.
Next time your out try and snap a few pics of the BWO's. I know the TVA benthic crew would love to document them because they have never been able to find any in the system. I have seen a handful of iso over the years, a few quill gordons eons ago, hex in the summer, but never have seen a baetis
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:43 AM
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MadisonBoats MadisonBoats is offline
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I fished the Church last night between 6pm & 8pm, saw no hatches and a few rises. Caught a total of two on a dropper at diffrent times, sulpher parachute 18 on top and black zebra 20, I had tied on bottom. First fish was on zebra nice size, second fish was small but hit the top fly which suprised me due to I had parachute on mainly for sight in flat light and did not expect a hit on it. The key for me on the Clinch is long long leaders and tippet and work that retrieve like Madison always says and I add some wiggle as I think he suggests also. It has only taken me a year of solid fishing the Clinch weekly to become a pitiful barely profcient fly fisherman who spends to much time and money on the Clinch!

Bigsur, I am glad you are having fun and enjoying yourself. I recommend you always keep an open mind and listen to all who are willing to give you tips. Next time; try tight lining a large midge with some hackle or a soft hackle fly. Cast out above a seam; let the line drift tight. Then slow bump; do not retreive the fly until the drift plays out. Then; slow bump retreive at a varied pace. Also; this works great even if you have not let your drift play out-especially when throwing across the river. If you see me on the river; give me a shout and I will share you some flies.


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Originally Posted by Corbo View Post
BIGUR

The Clinch can be a tough river for certain.... particularly the zebra midge business. The other day I used 6.5 X at the Church in the afternoon and couldn't buy a fish. There were a bunch of "midge balls" going past me and I might have tried a Griffith's knat.

Seems I will be "tweaking" flies for the Clinch forever as Shawn & Beto keep finding "new" bugs and new "forms" of them.

Check out Shawn's underwater bug & trout videos on YouTube; they have made me "think" differently about trout behavior...

http://www.youtube.com/user/MadisonBoats?feature=
Thanks Richard. I have tons off new videos to add. Just need to edit some of the videos. Also; I have a new aerial tripod that extends to 12'. I hope to get some different perspective videos this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
Next time your out try and snap a few pics of the BWO's. I know the TVA benthic crew would love to document them because they have never been able to find any in the system. I have seen a handful of iso over the years, a few quill gordons eons ago, hex in the summer, but never have seen a baetis
Jim,
I have quite a varied collection of bugs in my own catalog and I started creating a Google Map with data and dates of the samples. Part of it is on my Facebook - Clinch River, TN page. I hope to add more photos and samples from others who are willing to contribute and share. Hopefully; it will help bring more positive attention to our great natural resource and promote conservation in keeping it clean and natural.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2013, 08:52 AM
Joe Congleton Joe Congleton is offline
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Fwiw --/before myths about Clinch tailwater mayfly species get completely out of hand l strongly suggest you capture and place in a vial some of the male spinners of the suspected species you think you are identifying correctly and take them to a trained entomologist to ID. The foremost Clinch expert lives in Norris and would like to see what you are finding. Pm me for his contact info if u want it. ID ing these species is not amateur stuff. The expert tells me one would have to have "keyed out" under magnification hundreds of specimens in the past to properly ID subspecies by naked eye. Even then naked eye ID is a crap shoot. I would suspect accuracy is a goal worth the trouble to pursue. Or at least it should be ,so that baseline data for the river is accurate and not perpetuated as internet BS.
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Old 04-24-2013, 09:18 AM
Rodonthefly Rodonthefly is offline
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Where is john Thruman when you need him!
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:26 AM
Joe Congleton Joe Congleton is offline
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John just laughs at this stuff. He is the contact in Norris if folks want to properly iD their discoveries.
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2013, 02:54 PM
Rodonthefly Rodonthefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Congleton View Post
John just laughs at this stuff. He is the contact in Norris if folks want to properly iD their discoveries.

And knows what he's doing! The man taught me a lot in my youth!
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  #17  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe Congleton View Post
Fwiw --/before myths about Clinch tailwater mayfly species get completely out of hand l strongly suggest you capture and place in a vial some of the male spinners of the suspected species you think you are identifying correctly and take them to a trained entomologist to ID. The foremost Clinch expert lives in Norris and would like to see what you are finding. Pm me for his contact info if u want it. ID ing these species is not amateur stuff. The expert tells me one would have to have "keyed out" under magnification hundreds of specimens in the past to properly ID subspecies by naked eye. Even then naked eye ID is a crap shoot. I would suspect accuracy is a goal worth the trouble to pursue. Or at least it should be ,so that baseline data for the river is accurate and not perpetuated as internet BS.
I am no expert and I agree that entomology is an extremely delicate science in keying species. So; I ordered one of the best digital microscopes I could find last weekend in capturing detailed photos to assist with this process. Also; I think it will take nice pictures of small flies.

I have three-different entomologists that have contacted me from various universities and plan on assisting me with keying sample requests. Hopefully, I may find some new species on the Clinch if I am lucky.

Also; I know John and he is a great man and fly fisherman. I have great respect for his opinion and reputation.
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2013, 07:55 AM
Joe Congleton Joe Congleton is offline
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Sounds like the right approach. With many area fishermen going from one river to another daily it is entirely possible a lot of benthos from various rivers gets carried to a new river. So species can be moved that way and prosper if new conditions warrant. Waders, boots,Boats, trailers can all carry eggs or larval stages.
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:05 PM
Corbo Corbo is offline
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Joe C.

After 45 years fly fishing for trout (North to now South and a lot of in-between) I have noticed regional color variations in mayflies that lead me to believe in "sub-species" etc.

Caddis seem to be universally tan, brown, olivy or black.... simple enough for me.

For the most part I just try to match the hatch from the bottom up and not care too much on the LATIN STUFF. lol

Perhaps a quaestion... How is it that the Sulphur hatch on the SOHO is wicked awesome and lasts for months BUT it is a much more sparse hatch of shorter duration on the Clinch.

Also the Holston below Cherokee has a fairly decent caddis hatch that is less than wicked awesome but decent enough and the Clinch has only a sparse caddis hatch.


Lastly is it at all possible to "STOCK BUGS"? If so; how is this accomplished?

One last thought... what about MORE NUTRIENT? Could it be the SOHO has more nutrient and this is why the awesome sulphurs? Maybe we need to add a bunch of horse turd to the Clinch?

Thanks.

Richard
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2013, 10:46 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corbo View Post
Joe C.



Perhaps a quaestion... How is it that the Sulphur hatch on the SOHO is wicked awesome and lasts for months BUT it is a much more sparse hatch of shorter duration on the Clinch.

Also the Holston below Cherokee has a fairly decent caddis hatch that is less than wicked awesome but decent enough and the Clinch has only a sparse caddis hatch.


Lastly is it at all possible to "STOCK BUGS"? If so; how is this accomplished?

One last thought... what about MORE NUTRIENT? Could it be the SOHO has more nutrient and this is why the awesome sulphurs? Maybe we need to add a bunch of horse turd to the Clinch?

Thanks.

Richard
There is a ton that goes into why certain bugs live in certain rivers yet don't exist in others that appear similar.

The SOUTH HOLSTON has a different substrate than the clinch which allows for it to have Baetis, however the Clinch historically has just has big a Sulphur hatch as the SOUTH HOLSTON. It may last a shorter period of time, or be timed different, but I have seen a ton of hatches on the Clinch which covered the river bank to bank with adults, and it looked like it was reverse snowing yellow bugs. The Clinch is subjected to much higher flows which could cause fluctuations in hatch strength from year to year.

The Holston below cherokee has strong caddis because of the substrate being a lot of round rock and warmer water temps which seem to make caddis thrive.

I am not bug expert by any means, but stating the Clinch has a small and sparse Sulphur hatch makes this conversation almost a non starter. The Clinch has never had a great caddis population, other than the tiny black ones which hatch late summer.
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