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  #41  
Old 04-14-2008, 06:59 AM
eastprong eastprong is offline
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Hey ij:

I do indeed understand how the Federal research cycle works. Most of the research programs and their projects are defined at the civil servant level, but must be approved at the Associate Administrator level or higher (appointed). Often research directives themselves come down from the higher levels. Decisions on who gets the awards is made at the civil servant level, so you do have a point.

But so do I. I didn't mean to imply that that Administration has done any direct meddling because I don't know. My point is that, even in an Administration that is clearly on one side of the debate, its agencies not only sponsor valuable (and hopefully objective) research but also put out fairly objective interpretations. (None of them are calling GW a hoax, as has been here, for example). Also, I would think that research findings supporting the Administration's view would be more than welcome and highlighted.

So I haven't refuted myself at all with the NOAA and EIA references. The point is that even when the political inertia is on one side, the agencies' faces on this matter are pretty even handed. And you'd better believe the spin agencies put on these matters comes from higher up. That should be telling us something.

The thing that me started on this post was the notion that we can blame the scientists which I think is very misguided, almost desperate.
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  #42  
Old 04-14-2008, 08:26 AM
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ijsouth ijsouth is offline
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Ahhh...but I do blame the scientists, at least some of them - the ones that should know better, but continue to sign off on this due to peer pressure, etc. The others generally have some sort of ideological axe to grind; while it has long been common knowledge that the academy tilts way to the left, a lot of people (including myself) always assumed that the "hard sciences" were safe from that sort of nonsense. However, it turns out that isn't the case - ideology drives thought there too, at least to a certain extent. Every scientist I've read of who isn't on the gw bandwagon has spoke of the pressure to conform to the "party line" on this. Conformity in the scientific world is not something to be valued - there should be vigorous debate, and unfortunately, this isn't happening enough on this.

We have all three remaining presidential candidates "on board" on this, along with most of the rest of the spineless bivalves we call our elected officials; if the top officials are "spinning" against this, it hasn't worked. Billions of dollars will be spent, and it's a no-lose scenario for the gw crowd; if the "actions" fail to stop warming, further, ever-more costly actions can be advocated and enacted...and, if the temperatures fail to rise (proving gw caused by man is a hoax), they can claim that their "heroic actions" saved the day. In the meantime, real environmental problems (such as losing 40% of the country's wetlands here in Louisiana) won't be addressed, and probably that much more of our freedom will be gone in the bargain....but hey, Al Gore and his ilk will be more than a little richer.
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  #43  
Old 04-14-2008, 12:05 PM
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WNCFLY WNCFLY is offline
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Hey look at the bright side, if Obama gets in we may have PETA running the US fish & wildlife service. lol. You never know!!!!
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  #44  
Old 04-14-2008, 03:47 PM
UTKFlyFisher UTKFlyFisher is offline
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So what IF global warming is happening. Now im not saying it is, I just happen to do a little research for school on possible affects. The question is how environmental limits that are associated with global warming could affect trout populations. Stream temperature is a basic limiting factor that defines suitable habitat for salmonids. Increase temperatures may force trout populations to move upstream, becoming even more fragmented. In a study by Flebbe et. al in 2006, Warmer habitats may change timing of spawning. In a warmer climate, brook trout may spawn later in the fall and hatch earlier due to a warmer winter. Likewise rainbow trout may spawn and hatch earlier in the spring. These increases in temperature could alter the compettive interactions between these two species, furthermore changing the phenology of prey. This would change the timing of food availability which would no longer be synchronized with the metabolic needs of trout. Another factor that may be associated with GW is drought. Drought is also likely responsible for structuring fish populations. According to Utz and Hartman, fish density has been shown to affect growth in the fish, in areas with less fish per unit area experienced significantly higher growth rates in both natural and stimulated settings. Global warming or not, all species of trout are somewhat affected by extreme variable changes in the environment.
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  #45  
Old 04-14-2008, 04:27 PM
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kytroutman kytroutman is offline
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If you remember, a few years back, La Nina and La Nino were modern day events created by global warming. Recently, the translations of the Mayans confirm similar weather patterns, but of course, what did the Mayans know, they have predicted the end of the world on December 21, 2012 ;-)
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