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  #21  
Old 08-22-2008, 07:55 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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It is in response to the 25,000 crap, but rather then weigh their options and air on the side of respecting the resource they went the exact opposite direction and decided to destroy a fishery over a 2 or 3 day lull in water flows which could have been made up from higher discharges in systems which would not have been adversely affected. It was a boneheaded maneuver and one that they should not be let off the hook for, especially seeing how other rivers are in peril at the same time. This issue is just getting warmed up, so stay tuned.
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:19 PM
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Paula Begley Paula Begley is offline
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*sigh*

Do not let this thread degenerate. Seriously.

Unless someone has the inside information as to specifically why TVA released water, I'm inclined to just close this thing. Speculation is just that, speculation. I won't have a war here.

Paula
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  #23  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:36 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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No speculation on my behalf, I have been on the phone for weeks with TVA folks about all of this stuff. I think this is a great thread, I see nowhere that any personal attacks or any thing even close has happened and I think that discussing an issue which is important to a vast number of people who utilize this board is a major benefit.

Afterall fishing reports are great, but mobilizing the base to help out our resources is a much greater cause.

It is your board, and your call Paula, but in my opinion only good things can come from discussing issues which possibly can impact the future of some of our largest coldwater fisheries.

What happened this week is a tragedy to all of us, and if you close this thread it is turning everyones back to an issue which could be avoided again in the future.

Buxbaum would be proud of me and others for spearheading a movement to save our fisheries while we have a chance.
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:55 PM
tennswede tennswede is offline
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Waterwolf,

I do respect your opinion and your right to one as Voltaire said. However, I am more inclined to agree with PeteCz on this issue. I do feel that you have a tendency to want to dominate with your opinion. It would be nice if you sit back and don't make so many conclusions about me or any other debater. If I had been a more senisitve guy I would have taken a deep offense to your insinuation that since I'm not from here I don't know the history. It just isolates you as a person who like the argument for arguments sake.

I am in no way trying to make anyone mad, I even began my reply with a statement to the effect of " I don't want to make this in to an argument". I just wish you could debate with not so many harsh words and less jumping to conclusions. I'm in no way upset with neither you or anyone else and If I have made anyone upset I will apologize. I know I don't know everything but I do know enough to have a conversation in most circles without looking too lost.

On your statement about fishing reports, well maybe we need to take this issues to another venue it is after a board run by a commercial enterprise for their customers. It is not a political agenda forum nor is it our private forum for our opinions.

Anyone going to Clinch tomorrow?
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:50 PM
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ijsouth ijsouth is offline
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This is an interesting thread...I too am an out-of-towner, but I come up to the mountains several times a year to fish; I haven't partaken of any of the tailwaters yet. I noticed the subject of rates, etc came up, and I'm just curious, about how much are y'all paying for your electricity. Down here in Louisiana, I have a 1560 sq ft house, and last month paid almost $250 for electricity. Granted, our heat is brutal down here, and everything has gone up, but I'm curious nevertheless. I noticed the gasoline prices up there were the same or cheaper than here, even though 40% of this country's oil is either produced or flows through the terminal at Port Fourchon, and a big chunk of it is refined here. Of course, it's a different commodity - a lot of that extra cost is in the form of tax, and our sales taxes are high here.
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  #26  
Old 08-22-2008, 10:49 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennswede View Post
Waterwolf,

I do respect your opinion and your right to one as Voltaire said. However, I am more inclined to agree with PeteCz on this issue. I do feel that you have a tendency to want to dominate with your opinion. It would be nice if you sit back and don't make so many conclusions about me or any other debater. If I had been a more senisitve guy I would have taken a deep offense to your insinuation that since I'm not from here I don't know the history. It just isolates you as a person who like the argument for arguments sake.

I am in no way trying to make anyone mad, I even began my reply with a statement to the effect of " I don't want to make this in to an argument". I just wish you could debate with not so many harsh words and less jumping to conclusions. I'm in no way upset with neither you or anyone else and If I have made anyone upset I will apologize. I know I don't know everything but I do know enough to have a conversation in most circles without looking too lost.

On your statement about fishing reports, well maybe we need to take this issues to another venue it is after a board run by a commercial enterprise for their customers. It is not a political agenda forum nor is it our private forum for our opinions.

Anyone going to Clinch tomorrow?
I just had a differing opinion and for some reason others seemed to have taken offense to that. My opinions and views are formed from years of working, not fighting, with TVA and TWRA to better the tailwater resources.

Sure I have strong opinions but they are based on years of experience dealing with the Clinch and the politics involved with maintaining a quality fishery.

I was not making a slight at you, once again, to you being from out of town and if it came across that way then my apologies as that was not my intent. What you may or may not realize is that I helped you out countless times when you used to come into the shop and needed assistance, funny you never seemed to think I was such a bad person then.

As Paula said this is a touchy subject, and carries strong emotions and opinions with it. Having seen the river, along with tons of others, when there was no weir, D.O. levels were horrible, fishing was sub par, and everything was basically working against it, until concerned users got involved with a willing and supportive TWRA/TVA coalition I feel like I have a vested interest in the viability of the resource.

I did not and will not sit back and watch resources be exploited when alternatives are available which may not be quite as adverse to the ecology of the river. It is just that simple.

Life is too short to get even remotely ruffled about events on an internet forum. And I have yet to draw any conclusions about you or anyone else in this or any other topic. Most everyone on here I know personally even though they may not know who I am.

Fishing reports are a major aspect of this or any other fishing related forum, however what is at the heart of our universe is the health of the rivers we all love to frequent.

If we get blinded by fishing, flies, back patting, and gear major shifts can happen which will alter the quality of fishing we all enjoy to talk about in the other topics. Hard to have fishing reports if the rivers we are reporting on are no longer worthy of our time or our attention.

Cheap power is great, but at what point is enough, enough? I feel for the Hiwassee users as they have watched as their river has suffered for years and years and now has taken a serious hit. I hope things are not as bad as they seem, and we haven't suffered another significant loss to our fishery.
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  #27  
Old 08-23-2008, 01:50 AM
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Waterborn Waterborn is offline
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I can say I am not well versed in the history of the TVA or all the politics - but it seems that there is always something that leaves me scratching my head about why did TVA do this or that...and while I'm all for maintaining and bettering a the quality of the waters we fish...TVA ultimately seems to me was not initally created for the enjoyment of my pastime and ultimately I'd have to yield to thier ultimate directives - maybe kicking and screaming, but yield just the same. They created it, I guess they can mess it up too...having said that - I applaud those who have come before and those who do press on to be the watchdogs of the waters which gives us some time to enjoy the resource while we have through its highs and lows - but I can't help but think though that in the end - its not truely "ours" ...sort of like renting a house - sure I can keep on the landlord about that faulty wiring or the leaky roof and he may accomodate and I'm sure to some legal aspect he'll have to, but ultimately he owns the house and its his to do whatever he has to do with it whether I benefit from it or not.
I do hope TVA/TWRA remembers us in the big sceme of things and that there will be continued groups working together for the betterment of the fishery. Personally I would like to be more active, but my job keeps me bound tight ...in the mean time it may be a case of having improvise,adapt, and overcome...(man I love that movie) and besides as we all know, there are other waters beside tailwaters...

Wolf, I gotta say - I think there is nothing wrong with strong opinions - maybe its a case of "not what you say, but how you say it"... moreover, you consistantly mention that you know everyone to some degree even calling some them out by name yet you like to maintain your anonymity - surely you can see how that may irk a few individuals...me, not so much because I know of you...at any rate...if there are those that are interested, what effective groups do you suggest people check out if they are interested in peacefully supporting TVA/TWRA in the process of helping out the tailwaters...
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Last edited by Waterborn; 08-23-2008 at 01:54 AM.. Reason: sppiellin'
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2008, 06:17 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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There are no real groups. TU used to have some pull but lost all credibility many moons ago. It pretty much has to be done on an individual basis. Call, send letters, call, call, and call some more. Every year there is a meeting which is open to the public and both TVA and TWRA are there and the whole focus of the meeting is the coldwater tailwaters.

AS soon as I know the date I will be happy to post. It is the best forum for voicing an opinion and they do listen and do care what we think, or at least they used to.
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijsouth View Post
This is an interesting thread...I too am an out-of-towner, but I come up to the mountains several times a year to fish; I haven't partaken of any of the tailwaters yet. I noticed the subject of rates, etc came up, and I'm just curious, about how much are y'all paying for your electricity. Down here in Louisiana, I have a 1560 sq ft house, and last month paid almost $250 for electricity. Granted, our heat is brutal down here, and everything has gone up, but I'm curious nevertheless. I noticed the gasoline prices up there were the same or cheaper than here, even though 40% of this country's oil is either produced or flows through the terminal at Port Fourchon, and a big chunk of it is refined here. Of course, it's a different commodity - a lot of that extra cost is in the form of tax, and our sales taxes are high here.
ijsouth, we cool 1,800 S.F. and our electric bill was $150 last month. It's usually less. Our gas prices were $3.47/gal this morning at Weigel's.
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2008, 09:30 AM
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Thanks Buzz...that's quite a difference, and I can't say I'm surprised. I think our power company generates most of its power from natural gas, and we all know what's happened to the price of that. As someone noted earlier however, power is bought and sold among these utility companies all the time, and TVA is the biggest player in the South - I wouldn't be surprised if our utility buys from them, no doubt at a premium price.

Anytime you are discussing huge public works like the TVA system, there's a series of trade-offs. It is like the levees down here - they keep the Mississippi out of people's homes, but they also deprive the vast marshlands of Southeast Louisiana of replenishing silt, so we're sinking into the sea, not to mention we've lost the buffer those wetlands provide when tropical systems come knocking. In this case, the tradeoff for flood protection and cheap power is the altering of natural river systems, and the fact that the new coldwater fisheries created are subordinate to power demands, etc. It's a tough situation, and I don't think there are any easy answers.
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