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  #21  
Old 03-02-2010, 09:34 AM
jross jross is offline
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Default help me with these....

questions!

Can a person carry a shotgun? Or is the new reg only for handguns? (I'd much rather be carrying my shotgun than a handgun...that's just me. And it is a serious question.)

What's to say that criminal minded people don't carry now as well?

I just find it disturbing. Not saying anything bad against WVbrookie, but that situation coulda been worse with someone else, like a trigger happy "everyone is out to get me" kinda guy. I'm not a lib, so don't say it.....I just don't want to go to the park worrying now about who's carrying. That's for the rangers.....or so I hope!

ps. I'll think on this more....
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2010, 01:40 PM
Jim Casada Jim Casada is offline
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All--I personally think a number of you are misreading and misinterpreting this mater of carrying a firearm now being legal in the Park. The change DOES NOT mean anyone can venture into the Park and legally carry a firearm. Only those who have a concealed carry permit, at least as I understand it, can do so. Obtaining such a permit is a rigorous process involving many hours of instruction, range time, discussion of safety and use issues, a detail background check, and more. Folks who pass this aren't irresponsible rednecks, drunks, or questionable characters.
The Park isn't suddenly going to become the wild West. If anything, I think it will be safer than before, and study after study has shown that in situations where concealed carry is legal crime goes down, not up. On the other hand, where are the worst gun-related crime areas of all? Places like Washington, D. C. and Chicago, where decent, law-abiding citizens have been denied their Second Amendment rights.
In truth, I think that the irresponsible, semi-criminal types who have occasionally caused problems in the Park in the past will be much less likely to do so now, and again I would emphasize this change does not mean anyone and everyone will be toting guns. Anyone who has one legally is going to be a very responsibel person who knows how to handle and use a gun and who has impeccable background credentials.
I probably spend more time in the Park than most of those on this forum, and far from being worried, I'm somewhat relieved. I also happen to be a firm adherent to the U. S. Constitution, and its Second Amendment is what this is all about.
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2010, 02:31 PM
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buzzmcmanus buzzmcmanus is offline
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Default just curious

I'm curious, but what are the chances that there will be increased car break-ins at visitor centers and other park buildings? Since these are federal buildings and you can't carry in them, will criminals be watching and break into cars when others go into the buildings. I know of 2 people that have their carry permits who have had their guns stolen while they were at the courthouse.

Are restrooms like the ones at Metcalf Bottoms considered federal buildings?
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2010, 02:49 PM
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silvercreek silvercreek is offline
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Given the way government is performing, I would have to think they would be considered the same. Regards, Silvercreek
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  #25  
Old 03-02-2010, 03:03 PM
Knothead Knothead is offline
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Default Gund on federal property

Keep in mind that when carrying a concealed weapon (handgun) in a national park, where permitted, the law of the state/states where the park is located prevails. For the GSMNP, that would depend on the laws of Tennessee or North Carolina.
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2010, 03:10 PM
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JohnH0802 JohnH0802 is offline
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Once again Jim says it very well. The bottom line is this, criminals carry firearms where it is illegal to do so all of the time, by definition they have no respect for the law. Rest stops in SC were initially illegal places to carry a concealed weapon with a permit when the SC carry law was passed. They have since modified the law because they found that they had made a safe haven for the criminals, while insuring that the law abiding would be unarmed victims.

Take a moment to think about why some of the most horrific crimes have been comitted in schools. Do you think that the schools were targeted for no reason? The schools were targeted because these individuals knew that nobody would be able to stop them from doing what they wanted. Would you put a big sign on your home that says "GUN FREE ZONE", I know I wouldn't and I cannot fathom why we would put our children at risk by doing this. Again the bottom line is that a bank robber is not going to stop robbing banks because it is illegal for him to carry a gun in one!

Violent crime has gone down in every state that has a right-to-carry law, while violent crime continues to climb in areas with the strictest gun control (i.e. DC and Chicago). Even criminals are not complete idots. In Florida when they first passed their carry law, gangs and criminals started targeting tourist at rest stops (i.e. people with out of state plates) because they knew that they would be unable to defend themselves. Florida determined this by interviewing the perpetrators. They then modified thier carry laws so that they now issue permits to non-residents, and this drastically reduced this problem.

Criminals will, by nature and definition, always target the weak and defenseless. This is part of the reason our founding fathers gave us the constitutional right to keep and bear arms (on top of the consumate check and balance on government).

If you look throughout history, the most horrific genocides comitted, were comitted on people that did not have the means or right to defend themselves.

Hitler first required the Jews to register thier firearms, then he required them to store their weapons in the local armories and shooting clubs, then he confiscated them and continued to exterminate them.
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  #27  
Old 03-02-2010, 03:33 PM
Knothead Knothead is offline
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To add to JohnH0802's post, several years ago a group of people put signs in the windows of their homes "We have no guns." The signs came down when the houses were broken into.
Hitler took over Poland in September, 1939 is just a matter of days. How?, you ask. The Nazis went to the local courthouse and pulled all the gun registration records. They went to the citizen's homes and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. "Give us your guns or we will shoot you." Unarmed citizens are an easy target for criminals and governments. The Warsaw Uprising was quickly squelched because the Jews were able to get only a few guns; few guns were available due to strict confiscation laws by the Nazis.
Australia, South Africa, and England have had sweeping gun bans. Now, they are trying to figure out why the crime rate has increased! Canada had a gun registration law passed a few years ago. It turned out to be many times what the estimated cost was. There is a good possibility it will be repealed and registration records destroyed.
I'll close with this. The crime rate in the USA has decreased while gun purchases have increased.
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2010, 07:54 PM
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GrouseMan77 GrouseMan77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnH0802 View Post
Criminals will, by nature and definition, always target the weak and defenseless. This is part of the reason our founding fathers gave us the constitutional right to keep and bear arms (on top of the consumate check and balance on government).
JohnH0802, you nailed it.

I have been on a couple backpacking trips, just me and the wife, were I wished that I had been carrying. One instance was at Bone Valley a couple years ago. Two campsites down were several drunk and rowdy guys. If they had decided to come on up and mess with us what chance would we have stood? They didn't...but what if?

My only concern was that my wife was with me. I'm not afraid of bears, snakes or cougars. The "bear protection" argument is absurd and the first person who over reacts and shoots one should be placed under the jail.

Also, the penalty for killing an animal in the park (deer, bear, elk, etc.) is incredibly weak. No wonder people do it...$500 and/or/maybe 6 months for an elk? You are in a National Park! The ante needs to be raised.

A bit of a ramble but...one more thing. I would have handled the situation that Mike Anderson described a little bit different. The guy would have been looking at a .45 instead of the .357.
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2010, 09:17 PM
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WVBrookie WVBrookie is offline
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It's not only a TN and/or NC permit which will allow you to carry a concealed weapon in the park, but also the states with reciprocity.

http://www.saf.org/reciprocity.html


jross,
What if grasshoppers carried .44s?

Chris
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Last edited by WVBrookie; 03-02-2010 at 10:14 PM..
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2010, 10:00 PM
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GrouseMan77 GrouseMan77 is offline
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I think that the park service was trying to keep quiet on this. They made need to go ahead and address it and out some info out there. I read back through this thread and someone was asking about carrying a shotgun.

WVBrookie linked a good site for those with questions on who is allowed to carry concealed.
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