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  #71  
Old 06-20-2011, 08:16 AM
MBB MBB is offline
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[QUOTE=Owl;93989]Don't worry. Soon, the number of fish out there will be the least of your worries. As the economy continues to tank, no one will be able to afford fuel, food or supplies for fishing trips anyway. And those that do still find the means to go fishing will be fishing for food, not for sport.

The stocker trout indirectly, but clearly provide cash to guides, motels, restaurants, fly shops, gas stations, convenience stores, and other businesses. This infusion of cash helps the local economy and allows people to afford fuel and food.
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  #72  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:41 AM
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Stana Claus Stana Claus is offline
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The stocker trout indirectly, but clearly provide cash to guides, motels, restaurants, fly shops, gas stations, convenience stores, and other businesses. This infusion of cash helps the local economy and allows people to afford fuel and food.
Which is exactly why (as I stated in posts #37 & 39) it's the local area businesses & governments that should be supporting the hatcheries, not the Feds. Make the folks who directly benefit from the stocked trout (and I mean ALL the folks, not just the fisherfolk), pay for the program. That's "Pay for Play" in it's purest form and exactly how a Capitalist system is supposed to work. What we're looking at now smacks clearly of Socialism.
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  #73  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:40 AM
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In a capitalist system you have to have a willing seller and a willing investor. How do you "make" a person invest in a free market?
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  #74  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:14 PM
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The hatcheries are the sellers, and the people who stand to profit from the output of the hatcheries (the hotels, restaurants, fly shops, guides, gas stations, grocery stores, etc, serving the people fishing for those stocked trout, as well as the local and state governments who collect sales tax revenue on all of the above) are the ones who should be investing to guarantee that output. The reason they don't is because, so far, they haven't had to. The Federal Government has been giving them a free ride by supplying the fish that brings in the tourist crowd without them having to invest a dime. I promise that if I were operating a business that relied on fish being stocked by some hatchery, and I could generate $75 for every $1 invested (per the quoted studies) I'd d****ed sure be investing in that hatchery instead of sitting around relying on Uncle Sam to do it for me.
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  #75  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:33 PM
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Wait, I'm sorry, the above rant didn't address the actual issue you raised with my earlier post. You're right, you can't actually "make" the locals who benefit from the hatcheries invest in them. But if the federal gravy train dries up and goes away, and if they make as much money off the tourist dollar as the studies say they do, then, if they were astute capitalists (and I realize that's a really big IF), they would invest their own money in the hatcheries to ensure the ongoing profitability of their local businesses. I probably should have use the word "let" or "encourage" instead of "make" in my earlier post. Perhaps that would have made more sense.
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  #76  
Old 06-21-2011, 11:47 AM
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The hatcheries are the sellers, and the people who stand to profit from the output of the hatcheries (the hotels, restaurants, fly shops, guides, gas stations, grocery stores, etc, serving the people fishing for those stocked trout, as well as the local and state governments who collect sales tax revenue on all of the above) are the ones who should be investing to guarantee that output. The reason they don't is because, so far, they haven't had to. The Federal Government has been giving them a free ride by supplying the fish that brings in the tourist crowd without them having to invest a dime. I promise that if I were operating a business that relied on fish being stocked by some hatchery, and I could generate $75 for every $1 invested (per the quoted studies) I'd d****ed sure be investing in that hatchery instead of sitting around relying on Uncle Sam to do it for me.
It might sound good in theory, but it completely breaks down in reality. The guides, fly shop owners, and proprietors of small businesses are barely making ends meet now. They do not have the money nor the organization to put together the money to purchase a hatchery and operate it successfully. That leaves the state and local governments who are also broke and who do not have the ability or have limited ability to borrow to make the needed investment. Either the feds pay (ideally the Core of Engineers or TVA to mitigate their damages) or we increase license fees again massively or we quit stocking and allow the guides, flyshop owners, and small businessmen to collect unemployment benefits for years. Wonder how much money the government(s) will pay then?
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  #77  
Old 06-21-2011, 05:13 PM
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If the feds or government at any level is actually doing something that keeps people employed and raises revenue above what it cost to operate it, then I'm all for it. If we could get more people to catch and release, then each of those dollars spent to stock a trout would multiply its value. Not against eating a trout now and then, but I agree with waterwolf. It's not a grocery store.
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  #78  
Old 10-22-2011, 09:08 AM
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There is a positive, and that is the majority of our fish do not come from federal hatcheries.

In all honesty the feds should not be in the business of raising fish. I do not recall reading in the constitution that the govt should provide ample fish for the country. Maybe I missed that section.

Personally I think far too many americans rely on the govt for services, money, or something else to make their lives better. What happened to the americans who wanted govt to stay out of their lives and do only the things which they should do (military etc). If we don't get this insane spending under control it will destroy this nation, and is already to some degree.

TWRA which is funded by us, should be the ones raising fish for stocking purposes and the people who utilize the waters where these fish are stocked should use self control and understand that it isn't necessarily a grocery store.

If you want more fish stocked, create a foundation to raise money to fund hatcheries in this state on the state level. Let the feds fold up. ASk yourself why do we need a US fish and wildlife service? Why does the federal govt need to stock fish?

Agree with this 100 %
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  #79  
Old 10-27-2011, 04:03 PM
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Interesting thread and posts. Hopefully, things will be resolved in the future. It would be virually impossible for states to take over the hatcheries. First, where would they get the money as wildlife agencies are strapped as it is. Second,the Erwin, TN hatchery hatches eggs and then ships them to other hatcheries to raise and release. I don't think it is feasible for each state to shell out millions to build new hatcheries just to hatch eggs and then build hatcheries to raise them for release.
Go to the USF&WS website and see what they do besides raise fish. I think you might be surprised.
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  #80  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:24 PM
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Probably need to create a federal trout stamp.
Everyone pays $.65 for each trout they catch & release. $2.88 for those kept.
We can lurk on the internet & outfitters reports to keep the tally if we think the honor system wouldn't work.
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