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  #21  
Old 05-18-2009, 02:19 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is online now
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Originally Posted by Wilson10 View Post
Wolf,

Tell them the truth... all bugs will be gone and no one should waste their time getting on the clinch for the next 50 years.
Well of course, in fact the high flows will leave the bugs fine, but will kill every trout in there, and it might not recover in our lifetime.

People should just donate their equipment to me, and I will keep an eye on it until the fish population recovers.
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  #22  
Old 05-18-2009, 04:33 PM
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Wilson10 Wilson10 is offline
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Thank you and I would glady accept donations as well - Please PM me for address for all donations
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2009, 09:41 PM
Burton Burton is offline
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The sulphurs will be gone because on the clinch they are swimmers not clingers. You are correct out west they don't wash out, but they are not the swimmer type. The sulphurs will still hatch, just will probably be down on melton hill somewhere. The rest of the standard flies will be fine on the clinch. aka Caddis

FYI: There are 4 types of Mayflies: Swimmer, Crawler, Clinger, and Burrower. Here is one of many articles I have saved about Mayflies that explains some of the characteristics of the different type of Mayflies. http://theflybench.com/bugs/mayfly.htm
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2009, 11:05 PM
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Default The sickness is spreading!

Burton,
They have PMD's out west in the big waters as Waterwolf has quoted. In the East they are called sulphurs, which are alot like Pink Alberts as well.

The sulphurs should be fine. That's my bet. We'll see shortly, although I think most folk here are suffering from SAG..............Sulphurs Are Gone syndrome. Symptoms include anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, and general lack of lucid thoughts.

Curable only by big hatches and rising fish!
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:09 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burton View Post
The sulphurs will be gone because on the clinch they are swimmers not clingers. You are correct out west they don't wash out, but they are not the swimmer type. The sulphurs will still hatch, just will probably be down on melton hill somewhere. The rest of the standard flies will be fine on the clinch. aka Caddis

FYI: There are 4 types of Mayflies: Swimmer, Crawler, Clinger, and Burrower. Here is one of many articles I have saved about Mayflies that explains some of the characteristics of the different type of Mayflies. http://theflybench.com/bugs/mayfly.htm
Incorrect!

Out west you have a whole host of swimmers which are mayflies, and they survive through massive flows each year.

The sulfurs on the Clinch will be fine, do you think they just swim around all day for fun? Nope, they will hold tight until conditions improve and then they will go.

Also, having floated the clinch 1 million times on 2 generators, they also hatch in massive numbers right through the 2 generators and the fish eat them as well.

Midges and blackfly larvae are far more subject to the high flows then the sulfurs. But as we all know they are doing just fine.

There is reality, and then there is perceived reality.
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  #26  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:14 AM
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silvercreek silvercreek is offline
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Depends on what the high water does to the insect's habitat. On the Henry's Fork, a heavy release of water with flushing of silt impacted the PMDs heavily. They also had a severe scouring after the river iced over and in an attempt to help things, they released water pushing the ice down the river scouring out the weed beds. The PMDs were heavily reduced. Bugs are hardy though we will just have to see.
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
Burton Burton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
Incorrect!

Out west you have a whole host of swimmers which are mayflies, and they survive through massive flows each year.

The sulfurs on the Clinch will be fine, do you think they just swim around all day for fun? Nope, they will hold tight until conditions improve and then they will go.

Also, having floated the clinch 1 million times on 2 generators, they also hatch in massive numbers right through the 2 generators and the fish eat them as well.

Midges and blackfly larvae are far more subject to the high flows then the sulfurs. But as we all know they are doing just fine.

There is reality, and then there is perceived reality.
I am not going to argue, back and forth. Im trying to make the people that don't understand the sulphur hatch on the clinch understand what the generation could mean. My friend who is an entomologist at UT, and his work there is to examine and test the different rivers, streams, and reservoirs in TN, has explained to me extensively the sulphurs on the clinch. My info is correct bc it is obviously backed by experts. I have lived on the clinch for most of my life, and fished it for around 25. I remember in the late 80's the spill effected the hatches, and then 6 years ago it did the same thing. History and Experts speak louder then assumptions. You are correct about sulphurs in standard generation, but that is the difference between 3000-9000 CFPS compared to 16000 CFPS. Also the fact they haven't stopped generation in over 3 weeks now. All factors to affect the sulphurs.
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:46 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burton View Post
I am not going to argue, back and forth. Im trying to make the people that don't understand the sulphur hatch on the clinch understand what the generation could mean. My friend who is an entomologist at UT, and his work there is to examine and test the different rivers, streams, and reservoirs in TN, has explained to me extensively the sulphurs on the clinch. My info is correct bc it is obviously backed by experts. I have lived on the clinch for most of my life, and fished it for around 25. I remember in the late 80's the spill effected the hatches, and then 6 years ago it did the same thing. History and Experts speak louder then assumptions. You are correct about sulphurs in standard generation, but that is the difference between 3000-9000 CFPS compared to 16000 CFPS. Also the fact they haven't stopped generation in over 3 weeks now. All factors to affect the sulphurs.
Well, I guess if you wish to have a peeing contest about living on the Clinch, then you might have wished to stand next to someone else

I grew up on the Clinch, been fishing it since I can remember which is probably 25 years ago when I was just a small fry. Long before jails, and so forth. Back in the days before the weir and any thing close to a hub baffle existed. Same time period when there were no sulfurs, same time period when the lower end of the river dang near dried up at times, and dang near the time that a 10" holdover was a magnificent creature. Cycle all the way through quality zones and so on and so forth until present day.

I don't remember the exact years, but the big flood from 7 or 8 years ago had a massive hatch which followed the month afterwards, and that has been by far the largest extended flows the river has seen since the sulfurs arrived. The following year brought a massive spring drought, and the next year the bugs were history, due to the unbelievable sediment deposits the year before.

They will be fine, trust me. Not trying to break your heart, but this is far from my first calf roping on the Clinch. Some would say I have spent a day or two haunting the Clinch in my life.
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  #29  
Old 05-21-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
Some would say I have spent a day or two haunting the Clinch in my life.
I believe I could include myself in this context
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2009, 06:07 PM
oldschool oldschool is offline
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I will have to agree with the Waterwolf as I spent some of his years on the river with him. In my non-entomology educated experience silt was a much bigger problem to the bugs than high flows/flood flows, particularly when the flood flow only lasted a short week or two in the very beginning of the hatch cycle. But who knows, they could all be gone and the hatch is done forever. Time will tell. My money is on the bugs being in pretty good shape.
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