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  #21  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:03 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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On the article...

There has yet to be an article, book, pamphlet, or any other form of media which has any accuracy regarding the Clinch, Cumberland, Holston, South Holston, etc etc. Every single one is some sort of skewed perspective based on the writing of a novice on each particular river. The authors would have been better served spending their time on the river and learning, rather then at home in front of a computer.

Heck one famous example from an article on the Cumberland is where the author didn't even realize which state the river occupied in its trout stretches.

Others have gone as far as to state Royal Wulff's and Red Scuds are the flies of choice for the Clinch.

It is sad that these "authors" put so much time and effort into producing common jargain which is of little use to anyone other then themselves.

On the latest Clinch article, it is what it is....and is basically an ad and nothing more. The crowds and impact that this sort of stuff has on a resource can seriously damage what others enjoy, all so one person can make a buck.

I wonder if the "expert" is the same cat I have seen the last few times down the river with 8 million stickers covering boat, truck, and trailer, and has seemingly been lost on the river when it comes to actually putting hooks in mouths.

Sad how this sport has changed over the last 20 years....
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2009, 01:42 PM
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Waterwolf,

I agree with you. Once the article came out I had a couple people ask me about it, and I basically said it was more of an ad for Orvis Sevierville. I don't fault Kris Maurer for this piece, he was only providing info to the reporter. Look at the picture in the article, does that look like fun to anybody? I count 11 fishermen in that little section of river. I wish the author would have asked himself how this picture would look after publishing this piece.

I do give out information on the message board, and I have started limiting that recently. This guy can list all the succesful flies he wants, but if the fisherman doesn't know how or where to fish them then he won't catch squat. I think this will cause a short flurry of weekend activity on the river. However, once the casual fisherman realizes that it isn't as easy fishing as the article alluded to then it will slack off again. I know many people who only fish that river during the sulfur hatch when the trout are stupidly aggressive. Also, bring on football season, the more early afternoon games the better. Let everybody stay home watching the game and I will be out catching the fish....
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  #23  
Old 07-24-2009, 02:32 PM
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Let me get this straight… You all think that the growth of a sport and its industry, an industry that brings so much happiness and enjoyment to us all is SAD?! You think it’s sad that more people might learn of our state’s wonderful resources and enjoy them? In the big picture if more people educate themselves and get out and enjoy resources such as the Clinch it would only lead to more state and or federal funding…and the byproduct of more funding will be a better cared-for and a better managed resource. Stop being so selfish and negative, it’s not just about you or your personal space on your home water. If it wasn’t for the growth of our sport/industry and continued new interest/education of our shared resources businesses like C&R outfitters, LRO, and all the local guides would have to find a different way to make a living. And then you wouldn’t have a message board to spend all your free time on…
I’ll tell you what I think is sad. People who hide behind their keyboard lobbing “shots” at other people or write with authority about subjects they know little or nothing about (like the true intention of the KNS article)…that’s sad! It’s posts like this and their authors that have forced so many quality people to lose interest in this message board. Do you actually read the stuff you all type before you post it. Have you taken the time to realize that your words might offend someone? Or is that what you’re trying to do?

Regards,
DOUG MOORE

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If you have a problem with the accuracy and abilities of these authors, maybe you should step-up, get off the message boards and write your own article, book, or pamphlet. I’m sure it would be a bestselling hit.
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  #24  
Old 07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOPPER View Post
Let me get this straight… You all think that the growth of a sport and its industry, an industry that brings so much happiness and enjoyment to us all is SAD?! You think it’s sad that more people might learn of our state’s wonderful resources and enjoy them? In the big picture if more people educate themselves and get out and enjoy resources such as the Clinch it would only lead to more state and or federal funding…and the byproduct of more funding will be a better cared-for and a better managed resource. Stop being so selfish and negative, it’s not just about you or your personal space on your home water. If it wasn’t for the growth of our sport/industry and continued new interest/education of our shared resources businesses like C&R outfitters, LRO, and all the local guides would have to find a different way to make a living. And then you wouldn’t have a message board to spend all your free time on…
I’ll tell you what I think is sad. People who hide behind their keyboard lobbing “shots” at other people or write with authority about subjects they know little or nothing about (like the true intention of the KNS article)…that’s sad! It’s posts like this and their authors that have forced so many quality people to lose interest in this message board. Do you actually read the stuff you all type before you post it. Have you taken the time to realize that your words might offend someone? Or is that what you’re trying to do?

Regards,
DOUG MOORE

P.S.
If you have a problem with the accuracy and abilities of these authors, maybe you should step-up, get off the message boards and write your own article, book, or pamphlet. I’m sure it would be a bestselling hit.

My name is Jim Jordan, I worked at The Creel for 11 years and guided on the Clinch and Holston for 6 years, still guide a few times a year now, but have pretty much retired. Most folks on here know who I am, and most on the river know me as well. I pretty much keep to myself on the water and do not get in any ones way, nor speak to many either. Nothing personal with anyone, just enjoy peace and quiet on the river. I am not ego stricken enough to say whether I am capable of writing an accurate publication on the river, but others might support my qualifications.

I have also been fortunate to have known Byron and Paula long before they purchased LRO from its previous owner and watched the operation grow from a store which bought its inventory from us at the Creel, to where it is today.

The Clinch receives zero federal funding, I repeat zero, if it does someone more educated then me please elaborate. The state contributes fish every year, which the $$$$ for that comes from license sales of all types, not just trout stamps.

15 years ago when seeing another person at 61 bridge (Jail/Church for the newbies) was a rarity, there was plenty of funding and fish for all 3 of us that fished that stretch of river.

The more people that come, the more problems and negative impacts will be felt all around, period. Ask the folks in Fort Smith, MT how much it impacted their river. Or ask any of the hot spot locations around the world how their resources responded after several articles about them. The outcome is always the same, the resource suffers at the expense of an onset of new users. ALWAYS!!!

If my words offend someone then so be it, folks need to toughen up. If a person is going to jump into the public spotlight then get ready to get blinded every now and then. I stand behind that every piece of printed material I have ever read regarding this regions fishing is horribly inaccurate and the authors had little if any experience with the subject they choose to pontificate about. I am not out to offend, but if it happens then the offended probably know full and well they match the description I describe.

If anyone wishes to discuss this with me personally then please shoot me an e-mail and we can talk further.
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2009, 12:06 AM
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ChemEAngler ChemEAngler is offline
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Topper,

I am sure the author released his piece with the best of intentions, and my comment about it being an ad for Orvis was not really necessary. I also feel that he was targeting fly fisherman with his article, and that is also a positive.

However, my problem with the article is this: When somebody starts talking about high numbers of quality fish being caught from a local tailwater and puts that information out there for large numbers to see, it becomes something different. The people who know how to fish the Clinch knew how fine a tailwater it was all along. I think that placing this article in the News Sentinel makes every meat fisherman who hasn't fished the Clinch lately start having visions of a trout Shangri-La, and they place it at the top of their to-do lists. As I stated earlier, I have already had 3 people tell me this week that they are going there with corn in hand to try and get in on that action. What the Clinch does not need is an onslaught of meat fishermen coming over there keeping their limit of fish and throwing back all of the gut hooked fish that are either in the slot or undersized. I mean we may as well place signs up at Gander Mtn, Bass Pro Shop, and every local Wal-Mart telling every fisherman who walks in "Free Fresh Trout. Bring your stringer and take a load home."

To me, had this article came about in another publication it would not have had as potentially negative impacts. I hope I am only seeing a worst case scenario, and I am completely wrong in what results may come.
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2009, 06:26 PM
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Gerry Romer Gerry Romer is offline
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Let's get some facts straight here. The Sunday circulation of the Knoxville news Sentinel is 150,147. Weekday is 119,172. The population of the Knoxville metro market is 1,029,155. That would be a penetration of 11.6% on weekdays and 14.6% on Sundays.

Those are the facts. Now for some speculation based on 25+ years of newspaper advertising and marketing experience.

You're talking about a short article that was all but buried in the sports section of the Sunday paper. Take that circulation figure of 150,147 and cut it in about half and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers of the sports section. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough idea of the number of readers who actually noticed the article. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers who actually read the article. Cut that number in half again and you'll have a rough estimate of the number of readers who retained any of the information in the article after they read it.

Okay. Now we've got some real serious numbers. You're talking about roughly 9,000 readers who may have retained any of the information in the article.

Let's be really generous and speculate that fully 3/4 of the readers who retained any information gleaned from the article decided to act upon that information.

What you're suggesting is that this massive army of 7,038 potentially enlightened KNS readers is going to drive en masse to Sevierville to patronize the Orvis store and then descend on the Clinch River armed to the teeth with thousands of dollars of Orvis merchandise. Enough to put LRO, C&R and Rolf Lanz, collectively, out of business. And of course all of the local guides will then have to file for unemployment since Kris Maurer (who neither guides nor provides a guide service from his store but rather refers all inquiries to local guides, including C&R, but who is an accomplished tail-water fly fisherman) will have single-handedly put them all out of business.

Anyone who thinks that the KNS has any real impact on anything in this market is delusional. Especially when it comes to such a tiny niche market as fly fishing.

What does, however, have a real negative impact on the fly fishing industry and market is the collective pontifications and drivel of a few self-exalted individuals with diarrhea of the keyboard. People who live to see their own sense of self-importance and self-worth drifting in the ether for all eternity.

You want to have a positive impact on the sport of fly fishing? Spew your bile at meat fishers and hardware slingers. Have fun!! For example, you could pretend you're just one of them and you have a firm conviction that waxworms work way beter than corn. Knock yourselves out!

Yes, I read the article Sunday morning with my third cup of decaf. I found it to be an interesting mid-summer analysis of a lot of the chatter I've been hearing about the Clinch. In no way did any of it come across as an ad for Orvis or the Orvis store and to suggest otherwise is just plain silly. In point of fact, the Orvis store is mentioned exatly twice in the article. The first mention is by way of introducing Kris Maurer in the fourth paragraph, and the second mention is all the way down in the fifteenth paragraph where Kris is talking about the fact that one need not be a "pro" to enjoy the new-found vitality of the Clinch - it unabashedly mentions the free casting lessons at the Orvis store in Sevierville. Talk about shameless exploitation of the media!!

I believe a few folks on this board owe Kris an apology. And while you're at it why not throw in a big "thank you" for Kris's committing the Orvis store and it's resources to the success of Troutfest 2009? Not to mention his own personal involvement. But I suppose you all just saw that as another crass marketing ploy...

By the way, I didn't see anywhere in this collection of drivel a link to the article in question, so I'm providing one here in the hope that people can read it for themselves and make up their own minds and not continue to be led like sheep by the "great thinkers" on this message board. What a radical concept!!

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/ju...s-into-clinch/

Hopefully, I'll have my own thoughts on the Clinch posted sometime this weekend. For now, this was all I could stomach.

Gerry Romer
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2009, 07:35 PM
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nvr2L8 nvr2L8 is offline
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Gerry,

Welcome back - you've been sort of scarce lately. Glad to see you haven't lost anything in your absence. Now, tell us how you really feel.

BTW, have you ever heard an explanation as to why the LCP gorge is off limits? I know that was a favorite of yours before it was closed.
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2009, 07:37 PM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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Hi Folks,

On behalf or LRO I apologize to Kris if he was offended by anything written on our message board. He is one of my close friends. The federal funds Doug Moore is referring to is an excise tax that falls currently under the Wallop-Breaux re-authorization that I believe began originally as the Dingle-Johnson act back when I was a kid in the 1950's. I don't know all the facts so please do your own research and don't rely on my recollection. Fishing tackle, fishing boats, boat fuel, bird watching equipment and other outdoor sporting goods are taxed at a percentage of wholesale cost. It is probably less on boats. Recently the tax was changed on fly rods to $10 per rod instead of 10% of wholesale cost. I don't know all of the tax rates but fishing tackle for the most part is 10%. Funding from this act ends up in the Sportfish Restoration and Boating Trust Fund. That tax is re-distributed to State wildlife agencies based on the number of licenses sold. I remember one year I heard that TWRA received over $4 million in federal funds. I remember the total excise tax raised over $500 million at one point. I would guess that number is less now. Fishing tackle and boat sales are down, way down. So Doug's statement about our tackle industry creating federal funding for fisheries in Tennessee seems correct the way I look at it. Again, this is information derived from my failing memory so I could be wrong. I have not looked into it in a while.

I hope the newspaper doesn't call me and ask questions about fishing in the Smokies. I think I'll call in sick that day or ask our fine people working in the shop to tell them I died.

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Last edited by Byron Begley; 07-25-2009 at 08:04 PM..
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  #29  
Old 07-25-2009, 08:11 PM
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Hey Byron, no need for an apology. I do hope the Clinch doesn't get too crazy as that was not my intention. I was only super stoked about fishing it this spring and had been having a blast. When I was asked about my recent fishing by the author I thought it'd be cool to read a little about fly fishing instead of bass fishing in the paper. Anyways tightlines to all and I can't wait to get rolling with Troutfest 2010, it's gonna be sick.

Kris Maurer
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  #30  
Old 07-25-2009, 08:18 PM
tennswede tennswede is offline
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Thanks to Doug Moore and Gerry Romer, for some common sense and telling it they way it is.
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