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  #11  
Old 11-01-2009, 09:01 AM
Jim Casada Jim Casada is offline
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Grampus (and others)--Thre additional thoughts on tandem rigs. (1) You'll save some flies in the long run if you use one size smaller tippet for the dropper, because it will break off rather than having the possibility of a break taking both flies. (2) The casting stroke needs to be purer (i. e., making sure the rod is fully loaded on the backcast before starting forward) to avoid tangles with tandem rigs; even better, and I hold this is generally true for streams in the Smokies, rely heavily on roll casts. (3) While I agree that an improved clinch knot is the logical one for attaching the tippet to the bend in the dry fly hook, I feel a Turle knot is better for attaching flies. Why? Three reasons--it is a tad stronger, it is less likely to slip, and most important, with a Turle knot the fly always lands in direct alignment with the tippet. That is not the case with an improved clinch knot.
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  #12  
Old 11-01-2009, 10:19 AM
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Waterborn Waterborn is offline
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I pretty much do the on the hook bend dropper and 6x fluro as well for the dropper - haven't had issue with the improved clinch - as they say, if it ain't broke....
A little trick to tie on the dropper - unwind and leave tippet on the spool, make the hook bend tie then snip tippet at spool end. This creates sort of an anchor and alleviates some frustration of line slipping about.
I guess the next logical progression is go ahead, break the chains of dry fly tyranny snip of dry - and highstick it. Another rewarding facet of our sport that for me (in the park least) has hooked more fish than a dry/dropper combo.
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  #13  
Old 11-01-2009, 10:30 AM
Jim Casada Jim Casada is offline
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Waterborn--There's nothing wrong with a properly tied improved clinch knot (and I'm guessing it is the one 90 percent of fly fishermen use). However, use it long enough and sooner or later you will have one slip and a tell-tale pig tail of monofilament come back to you. My real point, however, focused not on this (when one slips it is almost alway the angler's fault--he didn't cinch it tightly) but on the slight advantages of the Turle knot (which almost no one seems to know). It is 1 to 2 percent stronger (a minimal difference to be sure), BUT, because it actually ties around the shank of the hook immediately below the eye rather than directly to the eye (or the bend of the hook when an improved clinch is used to attached tippet for a dropper), the tippet and the fly are always directly aligned. That is not the case with an improved clince. Just take a fly which has been tied on with one and move the knot around the eye. You will immediately realize that the fly can be positioned at all sorts of angles vis-a-vis the tippet.
All minor stuff, but then, aren't little tidbits like this part and parcel of the sport? I know such is the case for me.
One final thought. Have you (or others) ever tried a Turle knot? Except for the need for care in "clearing" hackle as you cinch it down around a "bushy" dry fly, I find it easier than an improved clinch knot. Of course I've tied both countless thousands of times, and that may explain it. In fairness, students in beginner classes I teach annually at Sugarlands in the Smoky Mountain Field School usually find the Turle knot more difficult. However, that may be because almost all of them already know the improved clinch knot.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2009, 12:02 PM
tennswede tennswede is offline
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Just an observation, after Pete C told me about Davy Wooton's Davy knot I'm not going back to either Turle or Improved Clinch unless I'm using 6x or thinner. For 5X and up the Davy knot is superb. google it and you will see how easy it is to tie and how strong it is if tied correctly. Thanks Pete.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2009, 12:18 PM
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rivergal rivergal is offline
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Since I switched to the Davy knot I have saved a bunch of time as the Davy knot is faster to tie when you are dealing with line as fine as frog hair.
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  #16  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:25 PM
The Principal The Principal is offline
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How is the Davy note tied?
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  #17  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:55 PM
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silvercreek silvercreek is offline
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Here is a link. This is going to be my "go to" knot when the fingers are cold.
http://www.pechetruite.com/Noeuds/Davy-knot.htm
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:58 PM
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rivergal rivergal is offline
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Default Davy knot diagram

Field & Stream's Guide to Basic Camping and Fishing Knots (Now With More New Knots!) | Field & Stream
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png[/IMG]
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  #19  
Old 11-01-2009, 03:27 PM
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silvercreek silvercreek is offline
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Principal, a couple of tips when tying what already is a simple knot. First, where the tag end first crosses the standing end, make sure the tag end is shorter than the distance between where it crosses the standing line and the eye of the hook, and grasp this crossing which will also hold open the loop toward the hook eye. Second, think about passing the loop formed over the tag end as much as passing the tag end through the loop. It's a good knot.
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  #20  
Old 11-01-2009, 04:36 PM
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Waterborn Waterborn is offline
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Jim--Yes I've used the turle (or turtle) years ago and just wasn't crazy about it - especially in winter w/ gloves on (course any knots can be a pain with wet finger tips in the winter) Something, in fairness, that your beginners may come to realize when they eventually move beyond fishing on ideal days/conditions ... but moreover, I'm just really a bad creature of habit. I went through phases of differents knots and then just stuck what works for me and used to in that respect. My main point though was attatching the tippet to hook bend with the improved clinch - which we agree works.
However, I'm liking this Davey Knot and seems to solve a few issues, especially when tailwatering fine tippets/ tiny flies and cold hands - thanks guys for the link...may have to give it a whirl...
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