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  #11  
Old 08-12-2010, 10:34 AM
pineman19 pineman19 is offline
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Waterwolf,

I totally agree on the mismanagement of the Tellico/Citico areas. What irks my criteria is that the majority of the stamp areas are on Federal Land! I don't have a problem with paying for fishing license and a Trout Stamp, but in addition pay for a daily permit to fish on federal land is BS. I wouldn't do it even if I was interested in getting in the middle of freezer fillers

It's unfortunate as Waterwolf commented. These are both beautiful rivers and could be sustainable trout fisheries if they were managed for the "greater good" instead of revenue generators for TWRA.

Neal
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Originally Posted by pineman19 View Post
Waterwolf,

I totally agree on the mismanagement of the Tellico/Citico areas. What irks my criteria is that the majority of the stamp areas are on Federal Land! I don't have a problem with paying for fishing license and a Trout Stamp, but in addition pay for a daily permit to fish on federal land is BS. I wouldn't do it even if I was interested in getting in the middle of freezer fillers

It's unfortunate as Waterwolf commented. These are both beautiful rivers and could be sustainable trout fisheries if they were managed for the "greater good" instead of revenue generators for TWRA.

Neal
You know I wonder if the Supremacy clause could make the Tellico/Citico nightmare illegal? After all a states laws cannot supercede federal laws, and I do not think Federal Laws would cover a permit which benefits the state, and the state alone.

The only thing I can think is that under USFS lands, that the state game agencies have the managing authority and set the rules.

It bothers the crap out of me as well, the whole permit thing with those rivers. Both of those streams are large enough, that they could be magnificent wild trout streams. I would be willing to wager, that they would be as good a wild trout streams as the Davidson or any other larger mountain stream which is managed with some sense of intelligence.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:21 PM
TNBigBore TNBigBore is offline
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The Tellico already is a good wild trout stream in spite of all the fishing pressure and intensive stocking. Once the crowds leave after Labor Day, the wild trout fishing from about the confluence of North River upstream can be very good. There are quite a few very nice wild brown trout in the Tellico especially. I have seen wild fish up to 26" taken from there. The Tellico is a good example of how resilient our wild trout streams can be. As for the Citico (below the forks I mean), it is a beautiful stream, but the wild trout are just not there in numbers like the Tellico. I don't think this can be attributed to fishing pressure or stocking as the Citico receives less than half the stocked trout and anglers of the Tellico. I think that the Citico is just a less fertile stream.
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  #14  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:41 PM
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Grannyknot Grannyknot is offline
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Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
Other then TVA damming up the Little T, the Tellico/Citico crap is one of the biggest travesties to ever happen in this state. Nothing more idiotic then taking 2 gorgeous large freestone rivers which could be managed in a responsible and productive manner, and turning them into trash pits otherwise known as a put and take fishery.
I'll second that, along with the impoundment known as Indian Boundary Lake. Ask any old-timer who fished Flats Creek & Citico Creek (before the creation of the Citico Wilderness disneyland) how the fishery was back then.

Last edited by Grannyknot; 08-12-2010 at 12:42 PM.. Reason: nil
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2010, 12:48 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Originally Posted by TNBigBore View Post
The Tellico already is a good wild trout stream in spite of all the fishing pressure and intensive stocking. Once the crowds leave after Labor Day, the wild trout fishing from about the confluence of North River upstream can be very good. There are quite a few very nice wild brown trout in the Tellico especially. I have seen wild fish up to 26" taken from there. The Tellico is a good example of how resilient our wild trout streams can be. As for the Citico (below the forks I mean), it is a beautiful stream, but the wild trout are just not there in numbers like the Tellico. I don't think this can be attributed to fishing pressure or stocking as the Citico receives less than half the stocked trout and anglers of the Tellico. I think that the Citico is just a less fertile stream.
Imagine what those numbers would be like if there wasn't the horrid weekly inundation of __________ ? Fill in the blank with whatever word/words you feel best.

That river seems to be much richer in terms of insect life etc, then other mountain streams, and has more potential IMO then any of the other high elevation rivers. Every time I am over that way it reminds me again how great TWRA manages our coldwater resources. I am sure Habera and crew think it is wonderful, or have some enlightening reasoning biological reasoning behind their "management".
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:48 PM
TNBigBore TNBigBore is offline
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I don't think there are many people at TWRA that think the current situation on the Tellico is even remotely wonderful (except maybe the folks working at the Pheasant Fields trout rearing facility). It is a circus and most know it. Unfortunately, there is a 60+ year history of intensive stocking of the river. If TWRA ever even suggested shutting down the Tellico's weekly stocking let's just say there would be more than just the normal public outcry from the citizens of Monroe Co and the surrounding area. I think that most of the biologists look at it as a necessary evil that thankfully has not destroyed the wild trout fishery in the river.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2010, 04:26 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Originally Posted by TNBigBore View Post
I don't think there are many people at TWRA that think the current situation on the Tellico is even remotely wonderful (except maybe the folks working at the Pheasant Fields trout rearing facility). It is a circus and most know it. Unfortunately, there is a 60+ year history of intensive stocking of the river. If TWRA ever even suggested shutting down the Tellico's weekly stocking let's just say there would be more than just the normal public outcry from the citizens of Monroe Co and the surrounding area. I think that most of the biologists look at it as a necessary evil that thankfully has not destroyed the wild trout fishery in the river.
I would mostly agree with you, the exception being the impact on the wild fishery.

I cannot imagine the fall out if they decided to cease the bucket program at tellico/citico. It would be unsafe to fly fish for decades following such a decision, and the locals would poison the river more then likely.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2010, 05:20 PM
TNBigBore TNBigBore is offline
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I cannot imagine the fall out if they decided to cease the bucket program at tellico/citico. It would be unsafe to fly fish for decades following such a decision, and the locals would poison the river more then likely.
I think you are dead on here. I ran a creel survey of the Tellico and North in the Spring/Summers of 1995 and 96. Let's just say that there is a certain segment of the local populace that feels that they are entitled to their weekly limit (or more) of stocked trout.

I think most people would be surprised how many wild trout there are in the Tellico though. I realized this the first week of my creel survey. I interviewed a fisherman named Walter Babb and proceeded to follow him along a 1/4 mile stretch of the Tellico at the end of one of my shifts. On a Monday evening after a typical Tellico weekend, I watched Walter catch approximately 30 wild trout with some rainbows in the 11-12" range. He was catching fish in every likely run and pool using his nymphing technique. I had assumed that there would be few wild trout in the river. Walter has caught numerous wild browns in the 20" class from the Tellico as well. These larger browns showed up in the fall sampling runs as well with one 26" 6+lb brown sticking out in my mind. I watched another fellow named Steve Babb catch a 24" brown in the large pool that has the water intake for the Pheasant Field raceways.

I think that freestone brown trout are almost immune to fishing pressure. There are just too few fishermen that know how to catch them. I never saw one brown trout over about 12" in a fisherman's creel on the Tellico, and very few wild trout at all. I am not saying that the wild trout would not be better off without the intensive stocking on the Tellico. I am just saying that the wild trout are doing far better than most think.
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2010, 10:42 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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I have had some great days eons ago on Tellico prior to the slaughter periods. Caught plenty of wild fish, and some decent ones as well. However, I just always felt there was not the number in the river there should be, or could be if the bucket toter brigade was absent.
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2010, 11:10 PM
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I have had the joy of meeting Walter that story don't surprise me a bit probably just the norm for him.
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