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  #61  
Old 06-17-2011, 11:32 AM
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...In regards to the fisheries, the cuts have to come from somewhere. Everyone, including myself, believes the cuts have to occur. The problem is that no one wants to sacrifice or have "their" programs suffer. US government is broke and so is the state.
I agree. Cuts are essential, and urgently needed, but are we to believe that past cuts by the Corps, TVA, and other dam operating federal agencies is the sole reason they have not been contributing enough of their shares of the hatchery operating expenses? I'm inclined to believe other than their accounts payable bean counters have had a say in checks not being sent to FWS.
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  #62  
Old 06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
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In regards to the fisheries, the cuts have to come from somewhere. Everyone, including myself, believes the cuts have to occur. The problem is that no one wants to sacrifice or have "their" programs suffer. US government is broke and so is the state.
I agree with the US government and state gove being broke which is exactly why Fred's letter above made so much sense. The Dam operators could help support the hatcheries and thus take up the gap that cuts would leave. I like it. Will send it off today Fred thanks!
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  #63  
Old 06-17-2011, 02:11 PM
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We better be thinking of some plans and quick.

I just got off the phone from a friend in NH up around the Errol area. Long known for brook trout in the ponds and lakes there. He said "it's dead, it's all dead" when I asked him how the fishing was in the ponds that we would use float tubes in and have great evenings with dry flies for brookies and rainbows. "New Hampshire has no money as a state and the feds only marginally stock the rivers, but the ponds (small lakes to us) only get about 50 fish a year".
Long Pond outside Errol NH(typical small pond and full of brook trout)

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  #64  
Old 06-19-2011, 09:03 AM
pineman19 pineman19 is offline
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We better be thinking of some plans and quick.

I just got off the phone from a friend in NH up around the Errol area. Long known for brook trout in the ponds and lakes there. He said "it's dead, it's all dead" when I asked him how the fishing was in the ponds that we would use float tubes in and have great evenings with dry flies for brookies and rainbows. "New Hampshire has no money as a state and the feds only marginally stock the rivers, but the ponds (small lakes to us) only get about 50 fish a year".
Long Pond outside Errol NH(typical small pond and full of brook trout)

Interesting, why don't the brook trout reproduce in these ponds? I have seen small mountains ponds/lakes in SW CO where the brookies are thick as thieves, too many fish so that they are stunted. Does acid rain play a role as well. I guess I haven't pushed the panic button on this issue. I tend to think people emotions are being played on this issue, something that politicians make a living on. I talked with someone with the USFWS a month ago and ask about this subject and he seemed to think they were not going to close the hatcheries, but simply garnering more support or money to keep things rolling. I think it will work out in the end.

One question I have is would some streams be better off without stocking? The SOHO for example, it has brown trout reproduction and supposedly bows as well. I can't help but wonder if the fishing could be a s good or better without stocking? I would be willing to bet (a dollar, lol) that the number of baitfishers and spinners would decrease if stocking was decrease or eliminated.

Just some alternative thoughts on the subject.

Let the flaming begin

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  #65  
Old 06-19-2011, 09:17 AM
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Research I have read supports that stocking a stream with natural reproduction harms the fishery. That said many TN streams do not have natural rproduction and would not have trout fishing without it. I would focus on stocking streams that at least allow carryover. But even at that, I think that reducing stocking will result in a loss of revenue from a reduction in trout stamp sales. I am suspect of any groups numbers, but it seems that stocking programs have an economic benefit which exceeds the cost of the stocking.
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Old 06-19-2011, 09:45 AM
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Research I have read supports that stocking a stream with natural reproduction harms the fishery. That said many TN streams do not have natural rproduction and would not have trout fishing without it. I would focus on stocking streams that at least allow carryover. But even at that, I think that reducing stocking will result in a loss of revenue from a reduction in trout stamp sales. I am suspect of any groups numbers, but it seems that stocking programs have an economic benefit which exceeds the cost of the stocking.
Question, does stocking streams that have good natural reproduction reduce the average size of the fish, especially the wild fish? There is only so much food in a stream/river, artificially raising the population without an increase in food seems like it would impact the average size and health of the existing fish. Just conjecture on my part, I am sure there are a number of factors that need to be considered when making this type of assessment.

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  #67  
Old 06-19-2011, 10:53 AM
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Man or beast, an area can only support so much life. In addition, studies suggest that hatchery fish lack the "social manners" of wild fish. Used to being in schools, they do not follow a pecking order like wild fish and much energy of both wild and stocked fish is spent in needless fighting for the best feeding spots and available food. Imagine an orderly line up for food versus a free for all for the same food.
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  #68  
Old 06-19-2011, 11:20 AM
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Man or beast, an area can only support so much life. In addition, studies suggest that hatchery fish lack the "social manners" of wild fish. Used to being in schools, they do not follow a pecking order like wild fish and much energy of both wild and stocked fish is spent in needless fighting for the best feeding spots and available food. Imagine an orderly line up for food versus a free for all for the same food.
Silvercreek,

I prefer the fingerling stocking that is done a lot on the Clinch. By the time those fish are 12" or so they are like a wild fish, in looks and how they act. A lot more enjoyable to catch than a fresh stocker of the same size. They fight better and have the colors of a wild fish. I would rather catch one of those fish than 5 "stockers". I enjoyed fishing the Holston (Nances Ferry) this spring for the same reason. It seemed the stockers were more wild in appearance in healthe and vigor since they had been in the river a while, in great part to all the early generation on the river which kept the crowds away and gave the fish time to get acclimated to the river. The Clinch is doing great as well, the fish are fighting like beasts and look very healthy and "wild".

Neal
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  #69  
Old 06-19-2011, 11:43 AM
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I agree with your observations. During the cicada emergence here in mid TN, I was surprised by the number of big brown trout in the Caney Fork in just the small stretch I fished. They were much like wild fish in all regards. I suspect they got that size from consuming unsuspecting hatchery fish. Rainbows that hold over also display the color and fighting characteristics of wild fish.
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  #70  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:48 AM
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Don't worry. Soon, the number of fish out there will be the least of your worries. As the economy continues to tank, no one will be able to afford fuel, food or supplies for fishing trips anyway. And those that do still find the means to go fishing will be fishing for food, not for sport.

Fly fishing is awesome. I love it. But there are bigger problems coming, unfortunately.

If only people worried as much about Liberty as they did stocker trout.
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