Home Register Today's Posts Members User CP Calendar FAQ

Go Back   Little River Outfitters Forum > Fly Fishing Board > Tennessee Trout Streams and Tailwaters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 09-12-2011, 10:23 AM
fourx's Avatar
fourx fourx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 224
Default

Back to the original topic...
Fished 61 bridge area HARD yesterday. Skunked!
I do not see the obvious signs of any quantity of fish down there that I saw last year.
They are not in the same riffles or the same holes as they even were during the sulphur hatch.
Have the fish moved up or downriver? Yes!
Sure, there are single rises here and there but not many.
There are just not many fish down there holding. A few, yes, but not many.
In my opinion, every river is cyclical. Whether TVA's flows or the insect population dictates this I don't know.
I just know that last year I caught 47 trout on a cdc comparadun in one day and on another I caught 18 fish over 16". This isn't the case this year.
So, tell the trout that 4X is getting PO'd and they need to get their butts back down there!

4X
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-12-2011, 01:42 PM
MadisonBoats's Avatar
MadisonBoats MadisonBoats is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norris, TN
Posts: 1,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourx View Post
Back to the original topic...
Fished 61 bridge area HARD yesterday. Skunked!
I do not see the obvious signs of any quantity of fish down there that I saw last year.
They are not in the same riffles or the same holes as they even were during the sulphur hatch.
Have the fish moved up or downriver? Yes!
Sure, there are single rises here and there but not many.
There are just not many fish down there holding. A few, yes, but not many.
In my opinion, every river is cyclical. Whether TVA's flows or the insect population dictates this I don't know.
I just know that last year I caught 47 trout on a cdc comparadun in one day and on another I caught 18 fish over 16". This isn't the case this year.
So, tell the trout that 4X is getting PO'd and they need to get their butts back down there!

4X
If find that the trout have been buffered at the Lewallyn Shoal and up-river. The striper fish have been doing some damage on the fish downstream this year with all of the consistent-heavy-generation. I never fish that area any more. It just does not appeal to me like it used to...
__________________
“Every human has four endowments- self awareness, conscience, independent will, & creative imagination.
These give us the ultimate human freedom... The
power
to choose, to respond, to change.”


Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-12-2011, 11:30 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,171
Default

I floated from Cane Creek to 61 two weeks ago and rest assured there are as many fish in the Clinch as there usually are.

However, I noticed some things.

1. Not nearly the numbers of 8"-10" fish as usual, I think the heavy flood gate flows almost all spring did a real number on the fingerling stockings.

2. There is more quality fish 14"-18" then I have ever seen in the river, period. Huge pods, 30-50 fish in areas that should have 3 fish total. Saw a couple of groups which easily had 100 fish in them.

3. Fish are unbelievably wary, spook from anything that touches the surface of the river. Due to maturity level of the fish IMO.

4. Fish are not holding in normal areas, holding in much shallower water IMO because of the higher flows since the end of July.


There have been no more or less stripers in the Clinch this year then in years past from what I have seen. Sure they eat some fish, but that isn't the issue.

IMO the issue is several things combined. Lack of small fish doesn't allow for steady action in between larger more wiley fish. Unbelievable pressure daily on several stretches of water that used to be very productive. Places that used to get fished 2 times a week, now get fished every single day for hours and hours on end. Bizarre flows with lots of 1 generator since the end of July which causes the fish IMO to prefer feeding with more water over their heads, and more places to spread out.

I was at a point 2 weeks ago where I was so arrogant I thought that the reason I wasn't catching fish like I should is because they weren't there. In other words "If there was fish here I would be catching them, because I am a **** ninja on the Clinch." Correct answer: Wrong!!!

The fish are there, no one is a ninja on the clinch, and it is **** tough fishing right now for even those of us with many seasons under our belts.

The best day I have had in the last few weeks was about 3 weeks at 61 bridge, literally in front of the Church on a Saturday morning. I spanked that a_ _ , in a crowd of folks. Nice fish as well, not fresh stockers, but dang nice fish with some right around 19" or so. So the striper theory can end right there, as there are as many stripers in that portion of river with the water running as anywhere. I know because I have killed plenty that were caught in that stretch over the past few years.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-13-2011, 12:11 AM
MadisonBoats's Avatar
MadisonBoats MadisonBoats is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norris, TN
Posts: 1,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterwolf View Post
.......
3. Fish are unbelievably wary, spook from anything that touches the surface of the river. Due to maturity level of the fish IMO.

........So the striper theory can end right there, as there are as many stripers in that portion of river with the water running as anywhere. I know because I have killed plenty that were caught in that stretch over the past few years.
Yeah, I am aware of it. It is a natural transitional area for the striper to move from the upper melton reservoir area to the tail-water area without getting in to shallow areas. Then; they can move back down at they same pace of the river drain down. I surmise that the striper-pressure have the trout spooked and holding in shallow areas in relation to this year's cfs schedule. I do not think there are more stripers; just a change in their predatory habitat.
__________________
“Every human has four endowments- self awareness, conscience, independent will, & creative imagination.
These give us the ultimate human freedom... The
power
to choose, to respond, to change.”


Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:24 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadisonBoats View Post
Yeah, I am aware of it. It is a natural transitional area for the striper to move from the upper melton reservoir area to the tail-water area without getting in to shallow areas. Then; they can move back down at they same pace of the river drain down. I surmise that the striper-pressure have the trout spooked and holding in shallow areas in relation to this year's cfs schedule. I do not think there are more stripers; just a change in their predatory habitat.

The stripers have been doing the same basic stuff for about 20 years now, and there were probably more of them back during the mid 90's, and then again about 4 years ago then there are right now.

I personally do not think the fish move riverwide because of the stripers. I do however, believe there are 2 or 3 areas where there are almost no trout, and it is because they are traditional low water striper hangouts.

Keep in mind there is plenty of browns in the river which do probably more damage than any striper.

In my opinion the reason you find fish in shallower water, is that it is easier for them to feed and with the flows over the last month +, they shift their holding areas to those places where they can easily feed with the higher flows. Also, the bottom of the river warms faster in these areas which speeds up the insect activity in the shallower water. This makes them attractive areas to feed as there is more available food then in the deeper water.

As long as I have fished the Clinch the fish have always loved to pull into shallow water to feed, but pretty much the same can be said for most trout rivers.

One last note on the stripers, the Cumberland in KY has more stripers then any place I have ever fished. Back in the hay day it was not uncommon to have 2-4 fish eaten off your line during a day of fishing by stripers. They were literally there by the thousands, **** there were more people guiding for stripers then guided for trout. I have not had a striper chase or eat a hooked trout on the Clinch in a long time, and no one I know has had it happen either. Back during the mid 90's during the 1 generator summer on the Clinch (wonderful summer of fishing BTW), I had atleast 6 different occasions where stripers took one of the fish I had hooked. I would say anyone that fished the cumberland from the early 90's until recently would agree that the fishing wasn't compromised by the stripers.

So I do not think the stripers are having any impact on the overall fishing, it is an easy excuse, but I feel the reality is that this is no different then past years and the slower fishing is a result of several factors, there is something I am missing that is causing the slower fishing, I am not going to blame it on anything other then me not uncovering the solution.....yet
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:34 AM
MB Caddis MB Caddis is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Default Duh!

Waterwolf, let me get this straight. You make a statement that you call "incredibly arrogant" and then get upset when you are called out on it. It my circle of friends, if you do something like that you better be ready to take some flack. Don't know why you felt you needed to be "incredibly arrogant" just to complant about a bad day.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Flat Fly n's Avatar
Flat Fly n Flat Fly n is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: East TN
Posts: 533
Default One more reason in the equation

This guy is living on borrowed time, or very lucky.

Death from above....looks like an osprey had him for a bit. I caught this guy in less than 18" of water yesterday.
__________________
I am a great admirer of spectator sports, especially on television; it keeps the riffraff off the trout streams.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-13-2011, 09:27 AM
cockeye valdez cockeye valdez is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 107
Default where is the food?

I do not want to start a fire storm but when I read about strippers, low water, release schedules, fishing pressure it occurs to me that the basics of trout fishing begin with, "where food is you, will find trout"

My question is, where is the food? I do not see hatches, I see some subsurface activity and accept that midges are coming down the river. I throw soft hackles with and without beads (had success, swinging hackles) nymphs, emergers of every variety.

I am not a scientist or entomologist (sorry John) but as I stand in the Clinch and consider the feeding lanes as buffet lines, there is not much food coming down on a regular basis.

answer me this of "Lords of the river" where is the food?
c.v.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-13-2011, 10:07 AM
Flat Fly n's Avatar
Flat Fly n Flat Fly n is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: East TN
Posts: 533
Default

In the grass or mud that is under your feet. Pull some up and look at it. Some species of grasses hold more insects than others. When you find thoses grasses in abundance...you find the fish....if you're hungry and want some food you don't take a drive into the GSMNP to find a restaurant, you go down Kingston Pike....KISS principle

food sources off the top of my head......for the Clinch and I am sure I will miss some.

1. midges...by the dump truck
2. scuds..... 1 of these is probably equal in kcals to 25 midges
3. sowbugs..
4. black flies and their larvae
5. caddis very few, but from time to time
6. ephemerella(sulphurs), but right now they are microscopic as they have just hatched from the spring/summer. They won't even become a factor for months. You might see a late blooming adult, but this ain't the South Holston
7. little red rockworms
8. craneflies
9. terrestrials
10. sculpins
11. minnows of varying kinds

some parts of the river have better food sources than others at varying times of the year. The Clinch although diverse as above is really an easy river to figure out for hatches as there are not 5 different mayflies along with caddis coming off at one time during the day or night. Why so limited in mayflies, caddis, etc...it's consistantly so cold, as say opposed the the Holston with its abundant food sources. But really make you pull your hair out at times is when there are rises all around and you can't figure out what they are "keyed" in on. surface, subsurface, tailing are all varying riseforms you need to try and figure out so that you can solve the problem.

may I suggest Dave Whitlock's "guide to aquatic insects".......for as the Chinese say....."to conquer your enemy, you must know your enemy"
__________________
I am a great admirer of spectator sports, especially on television; it keeps the riffraff off the trout streams.

Last edited by Flat Fly n; 09-13-2011 at 10:35 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-13-2011, 10:43 AM
cockeye valdez cockeye valdez is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 107
Default pulled up the grass

When I pull up grass on the So. Ho. I find aquatic insects, several varieties and until recently in abundance. Two weeks ago, I pulled up several hand fulls on the Clinch and found not very much at all. I have Dave's book, others also.

I suspect my problem is the section of the river I'm in. I fish the lower section near Lewallyn shoals, early spring it is great, love it, then about the end of April or first two weeks of May it gets tough.

Perhaps my problem is I need to locate buffet lines up the river.

Your point about food in the GSMNP is important. I have done stream samples and there is very little food most of the time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:30 PM.



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.