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  #51  
Old 09-21-2011, 06:32 PM
white95v6 white95v6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knothead View Post
It's me again, Margaret! Here your chance to tell them what you think.

http://news.tn.gov/node/7808

well i have already emailed them twice. maybe a 3rd,4th or a 5th time might help. lol.
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  #52  
Old 09-21-2011, 08:49 PM
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Thanks to all you guides for your input. $1500 for a TN guide licenses is a little heavy IMO I guess like everything else once the federal or state government gets involved we're screwed, glued, and tattooed!
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  #53  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:23 AM
br549 br549 is offline
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You guys will surely be forced to pass that on to your clients. I'm assuming trip rates will have to cost as much as Montana and Florida now. Geez...I would think it would be in their interest to recruit new fisherman...this will have an adverse effect on that I can only assume. And as been stated before, I love Tennessee and its outdoors but it ain't no hunting and fishing destination like Montana and Florida. I guess you guys will have to start charging for flies and leaders like they do out West to be able to make a profit on a trip.
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  #54  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:54 AM
Mike_Anderson Mike_Anderson is offline
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Meanwhile the commercial canoe and Kayak companies are allowed to dump in a continues stream of hundreds of boats into our tailwaters all summer long for,,,,,,,, nothing, 0, nada.
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  #55  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:42 AM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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I would like to know what is driving this. TWRA claims that guides came to them with this idea.

Personally I find this hard to believe, and with the amount of half truths TWRA puts out annually I really feel this is just another to add to the list.
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  #56  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:21 AM
Mike_Anderson Mike_Anderson is offline
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Waterwolf I'm not going to open that can of worms but there are people who want to shut down as many independent guides or "fly by nighters" as I've heard them called, so that they can get all the buisness. Think about who stands to gain and then you'll know who they are. They also have the ear of the TWRA person who's seems to be pushing this. This whole thing smells of good ole fashioned cronyism.
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Last edited by Mike_Anderson; 09-22-2011 at 12:59 PM..
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  #57  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:10 PM
TnTodd TnTodd is offline
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Hi Folks!

My name is Todd Ratermann I am new to the forum, but not new to fly fishing, guiding, or dealing with the TWRA/TWRC.

I am the person who made the original post on the SE forum that got this post started over here. There have been a lot of great points and good questions asked here and I would like to address them all, but to keep from boring everyone I will stick to the highlights for my first post.

The question was asked "what got this started". The TWRA claims that "Guides have asked for it". This is at least partially true. At one TWRC meeting (Kingsport, Aug 15) there was ONE guide who spoke out in hopes of getting this put in place with what I interpreted as wanting as many obstacles as possible. I think it falls along the lines of what Mike Anderson said in that the "big guides" want to use it as a way to push part timers out of the business. I guess with the thought and hope of having less competition. I also called and talked to Steve Nifong (TWRA) and asked if there was a guide license, not that I wanted one. This was taken by the TWRA to mean that I wanted one.

The second reason is no secret to anyone who has been at any of the TWRC meetings. They want to reduce the number of people using the rivers. Period. Preferably people from out of state. One commissioner stated something to the effect that "there are just to many people using the resource". There was also someone that I think was a county mayor complaining that people coming over from North Carolina and they weren't spending any money here. They were filling up with gas at home, coming over and using our river, then heading back without spending any money at all.

Quote:
well i have already emailed them twice. maybe a 3rd,4th or a 5th time might help. lol.
Probably wouldn't help much. However, I would HIGHLY recommend contacting the TWRC commissioners. They are the ones actually approving, or hopefully not approving, these regulations and proclamations.

I recommend that you respectfully call AND e-mail each commissioner, you can find their contact info at the following link.

http://www.southeasternoutdoors.com/...ommission.html

I will conclude this post by saying that based on the TWRA's estimates their two (of 3) options that include introducing a guide license will only bring in $65,000 or $63,000 in annual income. That is not much money compared to their $80,000,000 budget. There is also an admitted unknown number of lost revenue due to the loss of resident/non-resident license fees this may cause.

I have been to every meeting that this has been discussed, and will be to all the meeting in the foreseeable future. So, If you have any specific questions you would like me to try to answer, OR, if you would like me to hand deliver and messages to the commissioners I can do that as well.

I can't stress how important calling and e-mailing your commissioners will help to get this stopped. The last thing we need in these tough financial times is more taxes keeping people from visiting our great state.
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  #58  
Old 09-23-2011, 09:20 AM
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Thumbs up Excellent post by Todd Ratermann

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTodd View Post
Hi Folks!

My name is Todd Ratermann I am new to the forum, but not new to fly fishing, guiding, or dealing with the TWRA/TWRC.
.................................................. .......
I can't stress how important calling and e-mailing your commissioners will help to get this stopped. The last thing we need in these tough financial times is more taxes keeping people from visiting our great state.
Excellent post and I appreciate you taking the time to elaborate and address this topic. Whether we agree or disagree with this topic; I find that your post was very informative and helpful in illustrating the pros and cons of this topic.
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  #59  
Old 09-23-2011, 11:51 AM
Rodonthefly Rodonthefly is offline
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TN-Todd,

Thank you for for posting the contact info, I e-mail Mr. Harold Cannon, this morning and expressed my concerns. I promptly got a reply. it was as follows

Mr. Jennings:

First, thank you for taking the time to prepare your email. You are in my "neck of the woods" and your thoughts carry a lot of weight with me.

I am in Nashville today and will followup with a more detailed response by Monday. However, be assured that some of the information that you have been hearing is not correct. While options have been presented by Staff at the last meeting, we are far from any decision. It should be noted that one of the options presented is the 'do nothing' alternative.

Likewise, this is being discussed solely from a resource stewardship standpoint ...one that is understood to be misused particularly in Upper East TN by out-of-state guides. TN guides such as yourself, as well as those from out of state who 'do it right' are at the center of these discussions, so as to keep from negatively impacting you.

Again, I will respond more formally by Monday but wanted to get back with you as quick as possible.

Hope fishing goes well for you this weekend...

HC

Harold Cannon, P.E.

Unless he's just blowing smoke. I recommend others contact him as well.
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  #60  
Old 09-23-2011, 03:35 PM
TnTodd TnTodd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodonthefly View Post
Unless he's just blowing smoke. I recommend others contact him as well.

From my experience(s) Harold Cannon is the best and most reasonable of the commissioners. Unfortunately, he is only one of 10 commissioners regularly attending and voting. He is also new to the commission, he was appointed sometime after the May 16th meeting.

So, having said that, don't just contact the commissioner in your area, contact them all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Cannon View Post
be assured that some of the information that you have been hearing is not correct.
Not sure what he is referring to here since I don't know what you expressed to him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Cannon View Post
Likewise, this is being discussed solely from a resource stewardship standpoint ...one that is understood to be misused particularly in Upper East TN by out-of-state guides. TN guides such as yourself, as well as those from out of state who 'do it right' are at the center of these discussions, so as to keep from negatively impacting you.
I don't consider this to be entirely true. This is the goal stated by TWRA


1) To increase revenue to TWRA for management of the resource.

2) ensure that guides are contributing more to the resources that they use for commercial benefit.

However, at the Kingsport meeting August 15, two other goals were openly discussed; 1) reducing the number of people on the rivers, 2) making up for possible federal $$ shortfall should the feds shut down hatcheries as discussed earlier this year. I guess to some #1 may fall under a "resource stewardship standpoint". To me it falls more into the this is my river and I don't want some out-of-towners coming over here and bothering me when I am occasionally fishing it standpoint.

Addressing #2 (guide contribution) above, I don't think most guides are out there getting rich off of the resource(s). Sure some make a little money, but in general they also tend to treat the resource better, release the fish with a slightly more gently hand, and rarely keep what they catch. In adition their service helps bring more people into the sport and state, they help sell more licenses, sell more gear, and help keep "rookies" from getting hurt. A good guide will also be passing down good resource stewardship practices that someone on their own might not ever learn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Cannon View Post
It should be noted that one of the options presented is the 'do nothing' alternative.
This is correct, and what I alluded to in my first post. These are the options that are being discussed.

1) No change, leave it as it is.

2) require guide license with no qualifications. Use current commercial license which costs $200 resident, $1,000 non-resident. They expect to sell about 75 resident, and 50 non-resident license at this cost. This option would generate approximately $65,000 for the TWRA

3) guide license to guides that meet specific criteria. The cost for the actual license here would be about the same as #2, but there would be additional fees to the license that the guide would have to pay. They mentioned $350 that would cover drug screen, materials, background checks, etc. This option would likely require guide to have insurance which would cost an additional $1,000 annually. Because of additional administrative costs, this option would only generate approximately $63,000 for the TWRA


Todd
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