Brown/Brook Trout: Spawning Notes

[Flat Fly n]

Originally Posted by fourx

The other day I accidentally stepped on a scud.
I held it facing upriver trying to revive it but my attempt was futile.
So, I went home and lit black candles and couldn't even eat or drink anything for 20 mins..

4X

Congrats! I rate this on the LRO BB laugh meter a 9.3!

[William]

Originally Posted by waterwolf

I could care less if folks fish for spawning fish, it is up to each individual to do what they want as long as it is legal.

I have done it, and anyone who feels it is easy is mistaken. It takes incredible skill and luck to be successful, and 99% of the fisherman will fail.

What would erk me, is the poor handling I see examples of all the time being employed on spawning fish, or really any caught fish. There is nothing more rampant than mishandling of fish which are meant to be released. Look around this board from time to time for clear examples. I have fished with a few over the past couple of years that are as bad as any when it comes to properly handling a fish which is meant to be released.

Can you give specific examples of how fish are mishandled?

[Scott H.]

Originally Posted by guthook

Easy there Scott. That was quite a jump in logic you took there. Nothing I mentioned was illegal.

And coincidentally, people don't have to go to church... and there are no consequences.

Just making a point about your comment that people should do what they want.
Doing what you want is not always beneficial. I think that Shawn was giving some advice on what would be beneficial to to the ecosystem.



Scott

[waterwolf]

Originally Posted by William

Can you give specific examples of how fish are mishandled?

Sure and there are plenty of pictures around as examples.

Laying a caught fish on a dry moss covered rock removes it's slime and is considered poor handling.

Using cotton net bags now that rubber net bags have become available, can now be considered poor handling.

Laying a fish in the bottom of a boat for a picture is most certainly poor handling.

I have seen tons of pics in the last few months of fish that are covered in leaves, sticks, and moss which is certainly not indicative of proper handling.

The other incidents have occurred in front of me, dropping fish in the bottom of the boat, grabbing them under their gills to lift, snatching or "popping" the fly out of a fishes mouth etc etc.

I don't care if someone wants to keep fish, but if the intent is to release, than learn how to properly catch and release a fish, and a picture isn't always conducive to proper release when a person is alone.

[guthook]

Originally Posted by Scott H.

Just making a point about your comment that people should do what they want.
Doing what you want is not always beneficial. I think that Shawn was giving some advice on what would be beneficial to to the ecosystem.



Scott

And my point is that the concept of "Liberty" which we all espouse as Americans (I hope) is the idea that we are free from arbitrary rules, etc. What Shawn wants to do is fine for Shawn, however if I want to do things differently I'm well within my rights. In some cases even the game laws we have are rather poor. For instance, the 20 inch limit on smallmouth in the Pigeon River system is the most arbitrary thing I've ever seen. The people that live along the river sure didn't push for that. Guides pushed for it selfishly. I frankly believe that people that want to fish for and keep a limit of 10-15 iinch smallmouth should be able to do it as they've always done.

It's foolish to try to push our ideas on others. If you can change someone's mind that's fine, but if you can't, let it go.

[AL trout bum]

Originally Posted by waterwolf

Sure and there are plenty of pictures around as examples.

Laying a caught fish on a dry moss covered rock removes it's slime and is considered poor handling.

Using cotton net bags now that rubber net bags have become available, can now be considered poor handling.

Laying a fish in the bottom of a boat for a picture is most certainly poor handling.

I have seen tons of pics in the last few months of fish that are covered in leaves, sticks, and moss which is certainly not indicative of proper handling.

The other incidents have occurred in front of me, dropping fish in the bottom of the boat, grabbing them under their gills to lift, snatching or "popping" the fly out of a fishes mouth etc etc.

I don't care if someone wants to keep fish, but if the intent is to release, than learn how to properly catch and release a fish, and a picture isn't always conducive to proper release when a person is alone.

I've seen quite a few of the ol "finger to the gills" too. It's sad.

[Varmitcounty]

I am 100% with Wolf on this one. You can try to take the poetic zen "river runs through it" viewpoint of the Clinch if you choose, but honestly, it is a put and take river...and in some cases, not even a very good put and take river at that. If we had a naturally reproducing species in the Clinch I would be more inclined to leave them alone when they are doing their thing, but the fact remains that we do not have that situation. I have read numerous thread, and have a very dear friend who talks about the Clinch as if it were the Madison. Sorry. It is a 100% hatchery supported recreational river. Having said that, if you do catch a trout, and you plan on putting it back, think about what you are doing. As I said, I am 100% with Wolf on this one. People taking pictures of average sized fish in poses that are certain to do damage is not a good choice. I have a rule of thumb. Unless it is totally unavoidable, I will do my best to not even take the trout out of the water, and the only fish I will take a photo of is one that tops a personal best. I would have to land a 25 inch bow, 28 inch brown, 14 inch brookie, 18 inch cut, or 42 inch laker before I would ever go for the camera and even then I will not dump this creature in a situation that will kill it.

....dear God....I can't believe I am on Waterwolfs side....LOL

[waterwolf]

Originally Posted by guthook

And my point is that the concept of "Liberty" which we all espouse as Americans (I hope) is the idea that we are free from arbitrary rules, etc. What Shawn wants to do is fine for Shawn, however if I want to do things differently I'm well within my rights. In some cases even the game laws we have are rather poor. For instance, the 20 inch limit on smallmouth in the Pigeon River system is the most arbitrary thing I've ever seen. The people that live along the river sure didn't push for that. Guides pushed for it selfishly. I frankly believe that people that want to fish for and keep a limit of 10-15 iinch smallmouth should be able to do it as they've always done.

It's foolish to try to push our ideas on others. If you can change someone's mind that's fine, but if you can't, let it go.

Gotta take issue with you on this one.

When the Pigeon got the new regs there was no guiding going on the river other than whitewater stuff. The regs came about for two reasons, one the dioxin levels in the fish made them unsafe for consumption, and TWRA wanted to experiment with the regs that have been so successful in Virginia.

Many years later almost all of our smallmouth rivers have similar regs, and they are warranted. These fisheries are somewhat fragile and the growth rates of smallmouth in rivers is extremely slow. Floods can knock entire age classes out of a smallmouth river, and heavy fishing pressure can easily lead to a depleted resource. Compare Little River to one of the managed streams for example.

The move by TWRA was awesome and a rare case of them doing something right. 15 years ago when it went in place there were very few of us fishing it, and until the last couple of years has stayed that way. Now it is eve more important to have aggressive management to let the fishery reach it's full potential.

If folks made a habit of eating fish out of the Pigeon it explains a lot about Newport and Cocke county as well.

Just because someone has "always done it" doesn't make it wise. Where would the turkey population be if they let folks continue to use bait trenches? Where would the bass populations in the reservoirs be if slot limits weren't implemented?

The "always done it" view is twisted logic and is rarely if ever applicable in managing anything. Everything around us is in a constant state of change, and rules must change for the best outcomes.

[rockhopper]

hey 4x sorry about the loss of that poor scud. My wife would like to make dinner for you during this sad time.

I remember the time I killed that stonefly dang near broke my heart! Hey like you said this morning we should set up camp down by the confluence of Clear Creek.

[fourx]

Originally Posted by rockhopper

hey 4x sorry about the loss of that poor scud. My wife would like to make dinner for you during this sad time.

I remember the time I killed that stonefly dang near broke my heart! Hey like you said this morning we should set up camp down by the confluence of Clear Creek.

Could she cook me some trout between 14"-21"? They're best.
Also- I'll be fishing next to the waterwheel if your on clear creek soon.
Also- That nymph you killed had full potential to become an egg- laying adult!
Also- You need to drop your felt soles and switch to temper-pedic ones.
Also- There were WAY too many people fishing at 6:45am this morning!
Y'all need to get a very fast bass boat and hit Loudon instead.
Most crowded I've seen the river in 82yrs. of fishing it.C'mon feb.!

Seriously, like Wolf and M. Boats said, take it easy on the trout, they're my precious babies!

4x