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Old 07-19-2014, 05:02 PM
2weightfavorite 2weightfavorite is offline
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Default stocking solution...

So I was just thinking if they all but quit stocking the tail waters why not make them catch and release? I have seen people argue on this board that the clinch has some natural reproduction so why not supplement the natural reproduction with some light stocking? We all know the south Holston will have no problem with no stocking as will probably the wuataga as well...I think the fish numbers will obviously be lower in a lot of rivers than they are now, but with no kill regs they may at least stay worth while to fish....the hiawassee and Holston however will go back to warm water fisheries...but if we are doing minimal stocking ALL stocking should only be on rivers that are proven hold over rivers with no water temp issues..... just my thoughts as of recent...
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:36 PM
Joe Congleton Joe Congleton is offline
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Can you think of a way to get the stripers in the clinch to play catch and release rules? I'm confident the reproduction that exists in the Clinch could not sustain itself in the face of the stripers that inhabit the river seasonally. How many trout do you think a 40 pound striper eats every day in that river…..ten? fifteen…twenty? How many stripers of 30-40 pounds you reckon are in the stretch from Clinton bridge to the dam…I would guess there are 300-400, and maybe a lot more. When l do the math the trout don't make it. Plus there is clearly a factor to be considered in the equation to account for the trout mortality for those of us who fish and disregard the catch and release rules just like they do the slot limit rules.

There are many many things that could be done to enhance reproduction in the tailwaters, but so far the fish managers have not seemed to think the economics of in stream or adjacent to tailwater hatcheries can compete with the annual predictability of fish raised in perfect hatchery conditions elsewhere and "trucked in: .... Just my two cents.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:50 PM
2weightfavorite 2weightfavorite is offline
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Ahh. I didn't think about the stripers...do they go all the way up to the weir? I'm just trying to think of some way that will still make the rivers worth fishing...
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:55 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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For the record I'm very passionate and opinionated about the Clinch. It's where I grew up and where I learned to fly fish. My comments come from my belief that the rivers potential as never been realized because f TWRA and the greed of bait slingers.

Personally I'm all for it as a test case. Stop stocking, make the river catch and release, and ban bait fishing. For it to work the stripers and cormorants would have to go, and daily enforcement would be needed. There's zero chance this could happen sadly.

The natural reproduction is grossly over looked by 99.9% of fisherman and 100% of TWRA. Right now there are thousands of baby trout in the river, and it's like this every year.

I firmly believe that the stocking issue can be helped by a change in philosophy at TWra. However, they have a totally warped and illogical management plan in place. It's criminal the way they manage a resource which has the potential to be one of a kind.

First we need to push to an all fingerling stocking regime. No more trash trout, by trash trout I mean Brook Trout and nasty catchable sized rainbows. It's hard to imagine the genius who keeps thinking the brook trout crap is a good idea. I've caught a ton of pathetic fish species in my life, but those are the worst of the pack.

As long as people like Jim Habera and Frank Fiss are employed we will never have sensible cold water fisheries management. Keep in mind those two were the ones opposed to slot limits saying they wouldn't work, and that stripers don't eat trout. Nuff said...

Last edited by waterwolf; 07-19-2014 at 07:11 PM..
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:24 PM
2weightfavorite 2weightfavorite is offline
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I have the same tempered opinion of their deer management as well....different forum for that rant however...
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:44 PM
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I have the same tempered opinion of their deer management as well....different forum for that rant however...
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:22 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2weightfavorite View Post
I have the same tempered opinion of their deer management as well....different forum for that rant however...
I'd say we are on the same age on that, and don't get me started in the turkey management
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:49 AM
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The weir, as great as it is for the river overall is also an obstacle to the trout following their instinct to run upstream to spawn. Every fall I have witnessed a few dozen trout at a time, usually browns, gasping on the weir as the water falls.

While its probably nowhere near the problem the stripes and poachers pose, if the river is to become self sustaining, then I think it will need to be addressed.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:35 PM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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I remember we all attended the Tennessee Wildlife Commission meeting years ago when the topic of the Clinch slot limit was discussed and ultimately approved. I remember Joe Congleton and Waterwolf were there. Mike Bone and Scott Rogers were there.

I sat next to Frank Fiss in that meeting. From what I recall, he was in favor of the slot limit.

And, Jim Habera liked the idea too. He had fished on the Cumberland River and was very impressed with the great fishing there which was partially due to the slot limit.

Maybe those guys were against it at one time. Maybe they warmed up to the idea later. Both Frank and Jim are friends of mine and we spoke often during that time.

I may be way off, but that's what I recall. It was a while ago. i spoke out in favor of the slot limit on the Clinch and Joe Congleton gave an eloquent speech in favor of the new restrictions. He's good at that. George Lane stood up and spoke. I think Rick Murphree did too.

Only two people showed up to express their opposition. That was a big day for all of us. The slot limit passed and we were very happy. (Smiley Face would be here if I new how) See, I hit the smiley icon and it appeared at the top of the post. I give up.

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Old 07-22-2014, 02:54 PM
waterwolf waterwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron Begley View Post
I remember we all attended the Tennessee Wildlife Commission meeting years ago when the topic of the Clinch slot limit was discussed and ultimately approved. I remember Joe Congleton and Waterwolf were there. Mike Bone and Scott Rogers were there.

I sat next to Frank Fiss in that meeting. From what I recall, he was in favor of the slot limit.

And, Jim Habera liked the idea too. He had fished on the Cumberland River and was very impressed with the great fishing there which was partially due to the slot limit.

Maybe those guys were against it at one time. Maybe they warmed up to the idea later. Both Frank and Jim are friends of mine and we spoke often during that time.

I may be way off, but that's what I recall. It was a while ago. i spoke out in favor of the slot limit on the Clinch and Joe Congleton gave an eloquent speech in favor of the new restrictions. He's good at that. George Lane stood up and spoke. I think Rick Murphree did too.

Only two people showed up to express their opposition. That was a big day for all of us. The slot limit passed and we were very happy. (Smiley Face would be here if I new how) See, I hit the smiley icon and it appeared at the top of the post. I give up.

Byron
That meeting was when they knew their opinions didn't matter because higher powers had succeeded in surpassing them.

I sat through more than a few TU meetings where one or both of them gave slide shows and spoke to the fact that slots wouldn't work, and adamantly backed up their views to the point of being rude.

I sat in Clinton at a special meeting where again, both adamantly opposed slots citing they wouldn't work.

Each time the Cumberland, Montana, etc etc examples were brought up and each time they lobbied that you can't base management in TN on what other states do.

Since the early 90's and the days of the QZ on the Clinch those two have been a huge road block to any sort of quality management on our rivers. I've seen several TU members dang near come to blows with each one over the years. David Buxbaum being one in particular. Their views on the Holston below Cherokee are as disturbing as any I've ever heard.

Byron, I understand they're your friends but over the last 20 years they have proven time and again to not be an ally of trout management advocates in this state. They present twisted facts and faulty studies as proof for their side, and if it weren't for them we would have had slots long before they were finally implemented.

I don't mean to offend on this, just highlight the fact that for decades we've battled those two and their philosophies.
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