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  #21  
Old 06-02-2006, 08:09 PM
Kytroutbum Kytroutbum is offline
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Default Re: Snakes Question for DrDan

DrDan
Is there any value to packing the extremity in Ice? I've heard this slows the venom flow.
Randy Sale
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  #22  
Old 06-02-2006, 09:19 PM
DrDan DrDan is offline
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Default Re: Snakes Question for DrDan

Quote:
DrDan
Is there any value to packing the extremity in Ice? I've heard this slows the venom flow.
Randy Sale

it is not recommended. most authorities feel it can drive some venom components deeper into tissue and can cause more ischemia
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2006, 09:44 PM
Tellicohomes Tellicohomes is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

Dr. Dan,

I do some backpacking and at times may be 10 to 15 miles from a trail head, what is the best thing to do, except only backpack in the winter, to prepare for a potential rattlesnake bite??
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2006, 05:17 PM
lauxier lauxier is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

I think Dr Dan is right.I was repeating what Rattlin Bill told me.I wish someone would tell me what to do if bitten by a poisonous snake.The Vanderbilt Dr's ,the toxocologists,the er's,will tell you what not to do,and will probably want you to go in for some tests,bitten or not.My question is-----If a snake bites you---what do you do?like i said--i think dr dan is right,but i think dr dan answers no questions--his comments are negative,vague and about as instructional as kissing your sister.
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  #25  
Old 06-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Kingstonian Kingstonian is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

Quote:
.My question is-----If a snake bites you---what do you do?like i said--i think dr dan is right,but i think dr dan answers no questions--his comments are negative,vague and about as instructional as kissing your sister.
I think that is a little unfair. * His advice is to get to the ER ASAP and don't do anything to make it worse.

Things that make it worse include tournequets, incisions, creek water, chemicals, and ice.

At a point, you pass "first aid" and go to medical self treatment. *If there is no hope of professional medical treatment for, say, 12 hours, I wonder if incisions and tournequets would be of any benefit anyway. *Left to my own devices, I'd have to hope I got a dry bite (20% are) or a very small dose rather than risking opening an artery or causing gangrene. *

Doing some google work, you see that 8000 snake bites are recorded annually in the US resulting in fewer than 12 fatalities per year. *I think the moral is, don't panic.
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  #26  
Old 06-03-2006, 09:17 PM
DrDan DrDan is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

lauxier..im sorry you found my post negative and vague.

what you posted is quite frankly dangerous advice. i'm not sure how much more specific i could be.

the best way to not get bit is to avoid harrassing snakes. timber rattlers are actually quite reclusive and shy animals and it is rare for them to act agressively. their numbers are in significant decline due to loss of habitat.

there is only one other rattler in tn...the pygmy...but it is only found in the western part of the state and they are even more reclusive. the only other venomous pit viper in east tn is the copperhead. its venom is less harmful but still requires antivenom sometimes.

i would not alter my hiking plans due to fear of rattlers. the chance of getting bitten is incredibly remote if you act responsibly.

if a bite occurs

keep calm
get to a hospital as quick as possible
if you are by yourself, get out as best you can. communication is very difficult in the back country. i would not sit and wait to be extricated. while it is ideal to immobilize the limb that might not be possible if you are by yourself. basic first aid is about all you can do until you reach civilization.
incisions are of no benefit and actually cause harm
dont use a tourniquet
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2006, 10:22 PM
The Preacher The Preacher is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

My boys and I fished Tremont Thursday and came across a rattlesnake in the road. Sure does make you want to stay in the water and not out on the bank.
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2006, 10:53 PM
lauxier lauxier is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

dr dan--sorry about my abrasive way--there is a product called a Sawyer Pump .I get faxes at my pharmacy on this thing about every day--it is part of this company's snake bite kit.To use the pump you must first lance.Have you ever heard of such a gizmo.
Lets say you have just been bitten by a snake.You are by yourself.It is August and very hot.You are 300 yrds from a road that leads to your vehicle.From the road you are still 300 yrds from your truck.Do you walk out slowly or fastOnce you get to the road,should you stop and wait for help?.It is hot,you are very upset,your heart is beating a mile a minute,the swelling is starting,What now?
I have fished the Smokies for over 30 years.I have not had a close call with a snake.I have seen several copperheads and 1 rattlesnake.
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  #29  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:39 PM
DrDan DrDan is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

i have seen the sawyer pump/extractor. it is sold with the premise it can remove the venom through the original wound. it is actually a neat looking little kit but the problem is that venom can be injected so deep and dispersed through different tissue planes that venom return is low. if the venom gets into a vascular structure it is long gone before you can apply the gizmo

it is not "harmful" in and of itself... as long as you dont make incisions which can cause significant bleeding (pit viper venom has anticoagulants in it) as well as the risk of damage to important structures like arteries and tendons etc. i have seen some wounds made by people in the field (and in hospitals) and they can be worse than the bite itself !!!!!!


as far as what to do 300yds off the road with a bite...get out as fast as you can. it is ok to gather yourself but with a serious bite you want to get out as quickly as is feasible. trying to call for help is worthless unless you have a sat phone or a field radio (neither of which i own). some of the streams are so isolated i dont see anyone all day and waiting for rescue could be futile.

if i had a serious bite and couldnt get out i would hope i was on a river by a major trail and hope someone came along.
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  #30  
Old 06-07-2006, 11:12 AM
KYtroutbandit KYtroutbandit is offline
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Default Re: Snakes

Not to pick on anyone here, as my experience shows that most of the people who post are informed sportsmen and are familiar with the outdoors. However, I believe most of the "sightings" of posionous snakes are actually harmless common non-venom snakes. I have friends that I fish the park with and they are always telling me about the copperhead or rattlesnake they saw, and if I go to the area and actually find it, the snake is never what they think it is.

In my experience the parks venomous snakes are not usually found along the streams where most of us spend our time. (There are exceptions, of course).

The northern water snake seems to get the most credit for being a posionous snake, and they are prob the most plentiful large snake that most anglers run into.

I would like to see what the rest of you think.
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