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  #101  
Old 02-06-2007, 07:17 PM
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Flat Fly n Flat Fly n is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Byron,
Byron, sorry you got brought into this discussion. I have other than jokes aside tried to argue a very passionate side for special regs. on the Clinch. Other than a very wordy and solely opinionated person there seems to be agreement that there needs to be something done for this river other than status quo. Now as for my comments towards him, how does one stand by when he is told "if you want big fish...go and buy the Crosseyed Cricket, or join a TU and help with studies". If you don't want to get fired back on, don't pull the trigger and miss. I am no johnny come lately to the world of flyfishing, projects, and above data analysis.

In that manner, I and thousands of other fisherman and specifically flyfisherman must be stupid for spending millions on equiment, travel, hotels, guides in order to get a chance at a trophy in water managed for quality trout fishing, and not just leaving it to luck for that once in a life time fish.

IF one Googles C&R there is really not a quoted 10% mortality for TROUT fishing. That number pertains to a meta-analysis study (all C&R studies from circa 1966 to present for ALL species, salt and freshwater). (1)Lukacovic 2003 found <1% mortality of rainbow trout within a 24hour period that were lip hooked, which in my experience most are when flyfishing. (2) Yellowstone National park went to total C&R in 2001. (3) Dubois found 7% mortality C&R with bait, and 4% with spinners, and finally (4) Schill/Griffith found that on the Yellowstone River (surely some have heard of this river, thousand go to it for god forbid quality trout fishing) that only 0.3% died of a single hook up or catch, only 3% died overall during the season, that the trout were C&R on average 10 times, and that the average age increased from 3.8 to 5 years.
Another strong factor regarding mortality was water temperatures. One reason the park was thinking about closing fishing on the Madison in late summer when we went through there. To me, the Holston would prove a poor choice for C&R regs if TWRA was to exclude this on the Clinch. As you have said before every species in this state other than carp and trout has a slot limit on it. I don't think both of these fish belong in the same category.

As far as a "mission of TVA" and the great purge when they had to dump water secondary hurricanes, and thusly impacting the river for the past years, as well as effecting the macroinvertabrates, one only has to compare a similiar ecosystem controlled by dams at the opposite end of the state. Bull Shoals dam on the White River with 8 generators going has a flow of 25,000 cfs which is the quoted output of Norris when river supposedly was damaged, purged, or scoured. Little Red dam releases 31,000 cfs from it's generators. I have fished directly below these dams and one can litterly kick up clouds of sowbugs while wading. I disagree with the scoured bottom theory on the Clinch. Besides, water flow is laminar and the bottom is not effected, if not, then the great rivers of the west would hold no macroinvertabrates or fish after spring runoff.

Yes, I am passionate about believing there should be some change. TWRA ,put your money where you mouth is. Don't brag about the great trout fishing and not protect it. WE have great resources in this state to produce a quality experience for ALL. We also have the ability to help merchants like yourself, land owners, and the people that support the anglers that could come here make a profit from this resourse. Why should Dolly get all the bucks! East Tennesse has 4 great tailwaters that could be world class with better management, but it requires different thinking, and above all better management from those entrusted by the taxpayers and license holders to do that job.

Flat Fly'n




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  #102  
Old 02-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Kingstonian Kingstonian is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

One issue not discussed here is the fact that there are many miles of the river between the shoal below peach orchard and the highway 61 bridge that are not fished hard at all, particularly not by bait fishermen. When fishing does occur, it is usually on high water when the fishing is less efficient.

I believe that if the river is healthy (and by observation, it has been quiet barren in the last two years), there is plenty of time and space in these areas for fish to live a while longer and gain some size. As they gain size, there would logically be a spillover into more heavily fished areas. Doesn't that serve the same benefit as protected waters?

In terms of the minority ruling the majority, I see TWRA adopting size limits and reducing creel limits on crappie, largemouth, smallmouth, walleye, sauger, muskie, and striper. While the latter species are non-native, I didn't hear a groundswell to lower the number on crappie, and only the tournament guys wanted increased size and decreased numbers on bass. Crappie, sauger, and walleye are all "natural bait" fish for a lot of folks, and they too are forced to catch and release those fish that are too small, regardless of the bait they used. Just to say, it happens.
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  #103  
Old 02-06-2007, 08:28 PM
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RuningWolf RuningWolf is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Kings...

Except for Setzers Run there is a lot of bait fishing down through there. Mostly owners families and friends. I have been on several of the properties through out the day. In fact yesterday one of them has some campers from one of the major cooperation’s in the country on it, and for the most part they are all bait fisherman. The go there about 2-3 times a year to cook out, drink beer and fish. Now are there fly fisherman who fish down through thee as well? Yes depending on the time of day and year will have some bearing on how much and how often you see them. *

There is some deeper and seldom-fished water above Peach Orchard that grow some large fish as well.

Some of TWRA’s studies from 96-01 (I think that is the correct years) contain some telemetry studies and show normal movement of trout-interesting stuff if you can still find it

The other fish you spoke of the changes were fairly well agreed to by those who fish for those species. At one time they where never stocked either untill the striper was introduced. Some argue it does not affect game fish population but every body of water it is in the fishery has diminished. You will also find limited numbers of shad and other fishes that was a primary food of the species you named. They use to be present in great numbers. The conditions changed and based on science and the desire to continue that type of fishery then the regs had to change. I do not know all the details so I cannot add much more to that issue. Frankly I wish they would stop stocking stripers and see what happens, but it is a high dollar tourist industry. Trout fishing is becoming that as well. At some point all year around waters in Tenn. that does not have a private act will probably be managed more for the tourist dollar.


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  #104  
Old 02-09-2007, 12:39 AM
billyspey billyspey is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

what ever the reg's. are or become's they have to be inforced. have you ever seen an wildlife officer on the water on the clinch. so i guess that means only peach orchard ramp, weir dam and 61 bridge is where they will be inforced ,that leaves about 95% of the river unprotected. don,t they have to patrol the water. or we make new reg,s and every one obeys the law i don,t think so , twra has to get these guy's out on the water. so does it really make a difference what the reg's are, they do not inforce themselfs..
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  #105  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:08 AM
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kriscad kriscad is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

this post blew up! can someone give me a summary lol
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  #106  
Old 02-09-2007, 09:25 AM
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buzzmcmanus buzzmcmanus is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

More enforcement means higher license fees, which I am NOT for. I feel that more of us as sportsmen need to take advantage of the 1-800-831-1174 Poacher Hotline. I have it programed into my cell phone. TWRA will follow up with the call. You can also report suspicious activity.

Buzz
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  #107  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:01 PM
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Flat Fly n Flat Fly n is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

BillSpey & Buzz,
Again if you make a section of the river "special regs", then you are required to have a "special licence" for the Clinch in order to pay to play. Don't think that out of state folks won't pay it. Those funds alone could go to offset the price of a TWRA agent/ river keeper/ of the Clinch alone that could keep tabs on the cooler gang...... You've seen them, limit...then go to the car, dump them off, and come back..

I know, call the Poaching Hotline.........well, how about printing the number on my license.

Flat Fly'n
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  #108  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:33 PM
jgduckhunter jgduckhunter is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

I have only read about 75% of this thread, but I was *one of the big complainers when Dale Hollow imposed a slot limit. Now I am glad they did it. The number of fish caught didn't change that much but they all got bigger. I don't know if trout and smallmouth will react the same but it seems logical. I have never fished the Clinch, matter of fact I'm new to trout fishing altogether so maybe I shouldn't voice my opinion.
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  #109  
Old 02-10-2007, 09:37 AM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

jg,

You opinion is valid and welcome. A slot limit was imposed on the Cumberland River tailwater and the same thing happened to the trout. They got bigger!

Byron
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  #110  
Old 02-10-2007, 08:39 PM
jgduckhunter jgduckhunter is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

How much poaching is actually going on. For a tailwater of this size and popularity it seems that it would be patrolled hard. I know that no matter the number of officers there will always be some knuckle-heads. If the fishing is as good as I *use to read about a little extra fee shouldn't be too bad. We all have paid more for less I'm sure.
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