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  #41  
Old 01-29-2007, 11:14 PM
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RuningWolf RuningWolf is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Being retired is my job, they have asked me to come back twice as a contractor. I have said no as they pay me enough to stay at home and do what I want when I want.


Yes I would love to go fishing this spring. TVA flows non-withstanding.

I see you have discovered some of the secrets of the SH. I really need to tie more of them. I am to the point I really do not care if I catch fish, I enjoy being on the water and could care less about numbers or if I catch anything.

As to LUCRO I talk to their head from time to time as I fish off his property on occasion. Two keys with that group are science (They may look like dumb hicks, but they are not) and do not try to force anything down their throat. Ask their input based on the science then you can find common ground to build on, they are not unreasonable.

Edited to make clearer, I really need to pay more attention when I post and not do any late at night when I am tired. Grammar is not strength of mine anyway and to be honest I don’t care and I probably should but.....
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2007, 10:06 AM
Byron Begley Byron Begley is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

RW,

Can you get the more recent sampling data and creel data online? I printed out the Clinch Management Plan that was completed in 2002. If not, I'll call Jim and see if he'll give it to me. I think there is a new plan on the way as the old one runs through 2006.

Byron
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2007, 11:53 AM
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RuningWolf RuningWolf is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Byron hope this helps if not let me know and I will see what I have, can find or get access to. You can either post, PM or email me as you know who I am (Daniel should have my home email, which is different than the one on file for this name as I rarely check it).

Reproduction PDF

http://tennessee.gov/twra/fish/Strea...uction2006.pdf

To me this is a joke as anywhere there was gravel on the Clinch redds have been found. If you have floated the Clinch and paid attention to the bottom you know there are gravel beds in numerous locations besides islands and at bridge’s throughout the coarse of the river (you use to be able to see fry in May along the shores and by Aug. they where fearless and foolishly feeding on anything), it totally ignores tributary creeks and springs as well on the Clinch

The latest Creel Survey


http://www.state.tn.us/twra/fish/Str...hCreel2005.pdf

I just took a glance and did not see anything that made alarms go off. I will look at it more in depth at a latter time

The Conclusion from that report (and the reason for higher stocking is on down in this post)

“By all accounts, trout fishing on the Clinch River was excellent in 2005. The catch rate (fish per hour) was very high and the numbers of fish caught and harvested per trip were among the highest observed in any Tennessee tailwater. These observations of good fishing are also noteworthy given that electrofishing sampling in February 2005 (before the creel survey began) yielded low catches of most sizes of trout compared to catches in the preceding six years (Habera et al. 2006). Large numbers of fingerling and catchable trout of both species were stocked after the winter electrofishing survey (and before the creel survey began) and river conditions were good during the fishing season; these two factors probably were responsible for the high catch rates anglers experienced during the 2005 survey.”


I talked to one of TWRA biologist a few moments ago. He did not see the shocking surveys from last year and said it may not be published yet. He said the numbers where back up from the year before when they where down. The reason they where down the year before and still recovering some last year was because TVA had a high release for almost a month prior to their survey of release flow that ranged from 10,000 to 16,000 CFS 24 hrs a day this would wash most fish into Milton Hill where they would become Stripper Food. Taking a quick look at my records for the past couple of years there has been a small number of periods of high flows for 1-2 weeks time some of which appeared to be 8000-10,000 CFS I did not look in depth.

This is something I did not discuss in the above but was referring to TVA’s release schedule having an affect. I knew the Clinch had one blow out ~ 2 years ago as all the vegetation down river revived, as the silt was gone. The area near the dam may be more vulnerable to wash outs as higher flows are experienced for short term. The river/lake is being managed such that it is more subject to flow extremes less as Norris is being kept at a higher winter pool (995-1000 vs 975-980) so when this high volume rain events occur in the Clinch-Powell watershed in VA (which is not all that uncommon) they have to release large volumes to keep the lake near the winter pool level so spring flooding does not produce a extreme flooding event like occurred in the late 90’s when the flow was 30,000 cfs and more at times

They said the amount of fish they are stocking has increased in the past couple of years. (In part due to TVA’s releases) A new shocking survey is planned for next month and the results should be available in April. The new management plan when the draft is completed will be posted on TWRA’s website for comment before it is finalized. At the moment he did not know the time frame for that.

Exploring TWRA’s website and some links it appears they have a lot on their plate. Knowing some of the funding issues in an agency that was already short staffed, I have little problem with a minor delay.
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2007, 02:26 PM
TNGlen TNGlen is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

I will have to apologize in advance for stepping on any toes. *I just joined today and didn't quite make it through all of the replies. *From what I did read, I would like to make the following comments and throw my recommendations out for cannon fodder.

1. I saw the same 3 fish as Flat did 2 Saturday's ago. *2 of them were at least 10 or 11 inches long and were culled for larger fish. *That is a serious waste of resources.
2. I have a neighbor that constantly brags about how many fish he has killed in a day of fishing on the Clinch since he can "only" keep 7. *Doesn't bother him a bit.
3. Land owners have rights. *None of you on this thread would want strangers stomping across your backyard to get to fishing areas. *Sorry, but give them a little credit.
4. The legislature needs to get a law through that removes the land owner exemption from tail waters. *If the fish they are catching can be shown to be a self renewing resource such as deer, turkey, bass, brim, catfish, etc., then fine, use your land owner rights. *However, if my tax dollars are paying for those fish to be put there, then they DO NOT belong to the landowner nor can they be claimed to have been born and raised in that landowners section of the river.
5. I will gladly pay for a stamp equivalent to an archery tag, black powder tag, or rifle tag to fish in a C and R section of the river. *No questions on this. *I think that the money could go to supporting a fish and game officer on the Upper Clinch (Flat and I have seen several limits go out with kids playing on the back attached to them).
6. As for handicap access. I agree with needing to have access. *Here is how it is done. *There is NO access to the Upper Clinch (above the weir) except at the boat launch at the weir (above and below) and at the canoe launch at the dam. *Make a harvest area at the canoe launch that extends from the dam to 1/2 mile down the river. *Put up signs and a cable across the river similar to "The Cable". *From the weir to the new cable would be a C and R area only. *No possesion of fish in this area, even if you are walking through in the river. *No live or natural bait and I would even go for barbless hooks. *Require a stamp to be above the weir. *This would answer public access questions and Catch and Release issues.
7. Bottom line, TWRA isn't going to do anything that Bubba doesn't want them to do. *I personally have tried to call TWRA on this issue and got as far as, "we can't limit the publics right to harvest fish." *Unless we get our legislators involved, TWRA isn't going to do anything because they DON'T HAVE TO!

Oh well, this is enough for now.....Thanks and keep it going.
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  #45  
Old 01-30-2007, 09:04 PM
billyspey billyspey is online now
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

i was talkin to wildlife officer a couple weeks about the numbers of fish tsken at the weir dam been carried out by the bucket full [over limits]. and yes they are aware of this going on but can not catch them . but i was astounded when he told that the number of flyfisherman that they check that do not own a trout stamp.when they are ask what are fishing for , they say bluegill or walleye or anything but trout. if you practice c&r than you are not fishing for trout. so they aren't buying trout stamps and i have been buying trout stamps 30 plus years ,i had never though of doing thi,am i dum or what!!!
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  #46  
Old 01-30-2007, 10:01 PM
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Rockyraccoon Rockyraccoon is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

I was always under the impression that if you fish, in trout waters, whether fishing for trout or not, you must possess a valid trout stamp and a valid fishing/hunting license.
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2007, 11:25 PM
LYNN LYNN is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Hey Guys,
The reason the Clinch fish Catches are going down is because it gets hammered. That is our fault. If we would work on our technique we would start catching fish again. We need to stop depending on our Zebra Midge and realize we are the problem. People spend a thousand bucks and think they should catch BIG, TOUGH,and Conditioned TROUT.
Have a Nice Day,
LYNN HAYES
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  #48  
Old 01-31-2007, 12:09 AM
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RuningWolf RuningWolf is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Quote:
I was always under the impression that if you fish, in trout waters, whether fishing for trout or not, you must possess a valid trout stamp and a valid fishing/hunting license.

I think you are correct. I know you better not be in the woods with a weapon capable of killing deer and not have the proper license. I will check with TWRA tomorrow

I know of several citations written in the area he mentioned. If a TWRA officer sys they cannot catch someone there that officer needs reporting to hi regional manger. From past experiences there are very concerned about enforcement and go out of their way. They have also been undercover on the Clinch and a officer written violations when the violator got to the parking lot
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  #49  
Old 01-31-2007, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Lynn,
I beg to differ with you on the hammering aspect. *I think that there were more fishermen in the late 80s and early 90s that there are now. *I remember counting over 20 guys at one time over the weir to the cable during the 80's. *By my records that I kept for years, one in every 10 fish you caught was 18" or over, and now, maybe 1 in every 75. *You can go there now on any given weekend and maybe see 10. *Below the weir has always been crowded. *No I don't spend $1000 dollars on a flyrod, under and over's yes, but flyrods? *If I wanted to catch a 6" fish I would go to the Smokies. *Personally, I like the old saying a guide once told me about why he only fished for salmon and not brook trout.. "Why fish for kittens, when you can fish for lions?"

Running Wolf,
So glad you have one the health to fish that much since you have retired, and two, the private land to fish from. *While the majority of the public does not have this luxury, it seems that the public access is the area that needs some protection, therefore to ultimitely benefit the entire river. *I did have *access at one time when I owned a drift boat but sold it when I felt the river was no longer worth the effort of owning one. *I have fished from DS's shoal on many occations over the years and I believe that area has suffered as well. *I change flies, techniques, and seriously believe very few folks puts in as much effort in entomology, fly design, and techniques as myself. *I have flyfished from Spokane to Maine and in between for the past 26 years and kept records, photos, and have talked to many people over the past 6-8 who agree that the river is not the same. *You are the FIRST person other than a state paid agent that has made statements to the effect that the river has not changed over the past 6-8 years. *If you wish to believe that TWRA's answer to "fixing" the Clinch is to dump 3" fingerlings in massive amounts, while protecting other tailwaters throughout the state is sound judgement, have at it. *

Enjoy your retirement, I hope there is a river there worth fishing when I get to retire one day. *Right now, I believe that river is more worth fighting for.

Flat Fly'n
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  #50  
Old 01-31-2007, 11:29 AM
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RuningWolf RuningWolf is offline
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Default Re: Tennessee Trout Mgmt Plan

Quote:
i was talkin to wildlife officer a couple weeks about the numbers of fish tsken at the weir dam been carried out by the bucket full [over limits]. and yes they are aware of this going on but can not catch them . *but i was astounded when he told that the number of flyfisherman that they check that do not own a trout stamp.when they are ask what are fishing for , they say bluegill or walleye or anything but trout. if you practice c&r *than you are not fishing for trout. so they aren't buying trout stamps and i have been buying trout stamps 30 plus years ,i had never though of doing thi,am i dum or what!!!
I talked to the TWRA regional office. They said if you was fishing in trout waters (i.e. Clinch Tailwater) you have to have a trout stamp. He also said yearly there are numerous violations written below the dam.

They also said if some officer is telling you he cannot catch anybody or anything that sounds like it is not correct to report that officer to Brian Ripley 1-800-332-0900
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